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The Biden Administration and All Things Politics

Red said:
Be cool if you could come up with evidence that the defense industry companies they consult developed a plan, went to each of the generals in question, and said something along the lines: “OK, here’s the plan: we know if Trump is elected, he will attempt to overturn the post 9-11 national security state. He will reduce wars worldwide, and that’s just not good for our bottom line, $$$. And that’s not good for YOUR bottom line. So this is a no brainer and self interest demands you put aside your outright disgust of Donald Trump, should you find the thought of him as Commander-in-Chief repulsive, and do what we say in this case. We want you to pen a letter. It’s your job. It’s your gravy train guys”.

There was an alternative to this scenario, barring actual evidence, provided by yourself, that the arms industry contractors set up this statement, and instructed each of the 10 signers of the statement. You know, as opposed to meaningless and unrelated comparisons, like Lebron favoring certain shoes, etc. Hint: that’s not evidence.

I favor an alternate scenario. Perhaps the 10 are simply honorable? It’s clear from many comments from certain generals, Kelly comes to mind, that Trump does not understand these concepts: service to others(and, shocker, the president….SERVES….the people. Trump serves Trump). The concept of sacrifice for ideals and beliefs larger than one’s personal self. Even to the point that some concepts are worth dying for. Neither service to others, nor sacrifice for a greater cause are concepts the severely flawed Trump understands. Sad. Scary. Perhaps these 10, and likely many more, object to a Commander-in-Chief who so clearly lacks…..honor?

I personally am willing to assume these 10 officers have honor. And that they likely understand that Trump has no honor, and does not even understand what honor actually is. You, on the other hand, assume they have no honor themselves at all. Because, you know, Lebron and shoes….
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Ya Al thoughts on this are simply opinions. He has no proof that these generals were told what to say in regards to trump.
It is simply his opinion.

Being paid by something doesn't always equal spokesperson of something. It can be that was at times. Spokespeople for companies certainly do exist. And those people are sometimes given a script is what to say for an ad.

But sometimes people are paid by something and not a spokesperson of who/what is paying them.

Many people on this very sports message board have jobs. They get paid by the companies they work for. That doesn't mean that they ever praise their company and in fact I'm sure many people complain, bitch and criticize the very company that pays them.

Also, these generals are not promoting a product. They aren't saying "the military is great, I love the military". That would be a comparison to Bill Cosby and Michael Jordan.
These generals are talking about trump, not the military.

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fishonjazz said:
Ya Al thoughts on this are simply opinions. He has no proof that these generals were told what to say in regards to trump.
It is simply his opinion.

Being paid by something doesn't always equal spokesperson of something. It can be that was at times. Spokespeople for companies certainly do exist. And those people are sometimes given a script is what to say for an ad.

But sometimes people are paid by something and not a spokesperson of who/what is paying them.

Many people on this very sports message board have jobs. They get paid by the companies they work for. That doesn't mean that they ever praise their company and in fact I'm sure many people complain, bitch and criticize the very company that pays them.

Sent from my CPH2451 using Tapatalk
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It's the American way!
 
fishonjazz said:
Spokespeople for companies certainly do exist. And those people are sometimes given a script is what to say for an ad.
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That is exactly what happened. There was one letter. Someone wrote the ad copy, and these ten paid personalities attached their personas to the effort that a marketing agency pushed through the press. The selling of Kamala Harris or Jell-O Pudding Pops isn't different. All of it is out of the Edward Bernays playbook that sold cigarettes the same as support for Banana Republic governments.
 
Al-O-Meter said:
That is exactly what happened. There was one letter. Someone wrote the ad copy, and these ten paid personalities attached their personas to the effort that a marketing agency pushed through the press. The selling of Kamala Harris or Jell-O Pudding Pops isn't different. All of it is out of the Edward Bernays playbook that sold cigarettes the same as support for Banana Republic governments.
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It isn't the same though no matter how hard you try to make it the same.

Michael Jordan and Bill Cosby were selling their product. These generals weren't saying "the military is great! Vote Kamala cause she is pro military and trump is anti military"

They were just saying trump sucks.

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More great economic news! Wow!!! If we’re in a depression right now then I hope we never come out of it! This economy is awesome. It’s making a lot of us very very wealthy! If you’re not doing well, I hope you take a look at yourself and look to improve your situation through training, joining a union, or moving to a different location or profession. There’s a lot of opportunity here due to our economic policies, hard work of immigrants, and cheap prices for goods.

www.deseret.com

August inflation dropped to 2.5%, lowest level in 3 years

Price increases on goods and services drop for fifth straight month as Fed gets set for likely first interest rate cut in four years next week
www.deseret.com www.deseret.com
 
I
fishonjazz said:
Ya Al thoughts on this are simply opinions. He has no proof that these generals were told what to say in regards to trump.
It is simply his opinion.

Being paid by something doesn't always equal spokesperson of something. It can be that was at times. Spokespeople for companies certainly do exist. And those people are sometimes given a script is what to say for an ad.

But sometimes people are paid by something and not a spokesperson of who/what is paying them.

Many people on this very sports message board have jobs. They get paid by the companies they work for. That doesn't mean that they ever praise their company and in fact I'm sure many people complain, bitch and criticize the very company that pays them.

Also, these generals are not promoting a product. They aren't saying "the military is great, I love the military". That would be a comparison to Bill Cosby and Michael Jordan.
These generals are talking about trump, not the military.

Sent from my CPH2451 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

fishonjazz said:
It isn't the same though no matter how hard you try to make it the same.

Michael Jordan and Bill Cosby were selling their product. These generals weren't saying "the military is great! Vote Kamala cause she is pro military and trump is anti military"

They were just saying trump sucks.

Sent from my CPH2451 using Tapatalk
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He can speak for himself, but I think AI-O-Meter is saying the arms industry fears a Trump presidency because Trump said if he had been elected, there would have been no war in Ukraine. And maybe even the end of wars altogether, because….Trump. I suspect he believes Trump is bad for the military-industrial complex. It appears to be a play on this insane MAGA spin: Trump is the great peacemaker who will usher in peace on Earth, because….Trump. End the Ukraine war in one day. That’s a lot of arms industry $$$ down the drain. IMO, anybody who thinks Trump will just snap his fingers , and within 24 hours, peace breaks out all over, and bad guys everywhere will quake in fear of Donald Trump is falling for still another variation of Trump’s “like nothing ever seen before!” And a variation of “Only I can fix our problems!”. Uh-huh. Sure.

This is just Trump’s “magical thinking”. Might be effective in his alternate reality, but his total isolationism, “goodbye NATO, hello fellow mafia-state dictators, I’m back, and I’m one of you!” is not likely to be a foreign policy that leads to the end of wars on Earth.
 
Al-O-Meter said:
I'm not doubting they have honor. After all, they are honoring the commitment they made to the duties attached to the checks they are all cashing. And who says paid spokespeople don't have honor anyways? Are you really going to tell me that you don't think Bill Cosby has honor just because he was shilling for Jell-O Pudding Pops?
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No, I’m saying that….I am willing….to believe their honor and opinion of Trump as president and Commander-in-Chief did not necessarily include an element of: “this is your job. Do you like your job? Then you will sign this letter we prepared, won’t you?? Of course you will!” I skipped that part. I was willing to grant them “sincerity of belief”in signing. That they didn’t find themselves saying “geez, but I love Trump!” before signing anyway.

“they are honoring the commitment they made to the duties attached to the checks they are all cashing”

So, you are saying their commitment, and their very “duties”(!!) included lying if their employer told them to sign a letter that they felt would be a lie if they were to sign it? Are you saying taking their arm industry consulting jobs actually require that they violate their own sense of personal honor and ethics, if their employee says to do so? That they sign statements that they would never sign if they were being honest to their own beliefs? So, maybe you’re saying they agree to sell their soul? That’s the level of commitment required of them?

I’m not sure you are “not questioning their honor”. It really sounds like that is….potentially…exactly what you are doing….That their initial commitment included the willingness to violate their honor and ethics, if and when they are called upon to do so. That’s what you’re saying: “they are honoring the commitment they made”. Which, in your interpretation, includes violating their own honor if told to do so. OK, got it. That might be the case for somebody, I just don’t start off there.

So I guess the difference is I assume their being honest to their own beliefs, and you’re saying we must not forget when they commit to these consulting jobs, they commit to having the proverbial “gun to the head orders” at any time, and that they will not allow their own ethics to interfere with such orders.
 
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Red said:
I



He can speak for himself, but I think AI-O-Meter is saying the arms industry fears a Trump presidency because Trump said if he had been elected, there would have been no war in Ukraine. And maybe even the end of wars altogether, because….Trump. I suspect he believes Trump is bad for the military-industrial complex. It appears to be a play on this insane MAGA spin: Trump is the great peacemaker who will usher in peace on Earth, because….Trump. End the Ukraine war in one day. That’s a lot of arms industry $$$ down the drain. IMO, anybody who thinks Trump will just snap his fingers , and within 24 hours, peace breaks out all over, and bad guys everywhere will quake in fear of Donald Trump is falling for still another variation of Trump’s “like nothing ever seen before!” And a variation of “Only I can fix our problems!”. Uh-huh. Sure.

This is just Trump’s “magical thinking”. Might be effective in his alternate reality, but his total isolationism, “goodbye NATO, hello fellow mafia-state dictators, I’m back, and I’m one of you!” is not likely to be a foreign policy that leads to the end of wars on Earth.
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iirc our military budget was yuge under the trump administration. The military was paid bigly under trump. Our military ALWAYS gets their money from government. Wars dont need to be taking place for them to get paid.
 
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www.yahoo.com

Father of Ohio boy, 11, tells Trump and Vance to stop using son’s death for ‘political gain’

Nathan Clark calls Republicans ‘hate-spewing’ for falsely claiming Aiden Clark was murdered by Haitian immigrant
www.yahoo.com www.yahoo.com

The father of an 11-year-old boy who was killed last year when a minivan driven by an immigrant from Haiti collided with his school bus has asked Donald Trump and JD Vance to stop using his son’s name for “political gain”.

Nathan Clark, the father of Aiden Clark, addressed the forum alongside his wife, Danielle. Speaking at the meeting, Clark said: “I wish that my son, Aiden Clark, was killed by a 60-year-old white man. I bet you never thought anyone would say something so blunt, but if that guy killed my 11-year-old son, the incessant group of hate-spewing people would leave us alone,” the Springfield News-Sun reports.

“Bernie Moreno [the Ohio Republican senate candidate], Chip Roy [the Texas Republican representative], JD Vance and Donald Trump … have spoken my son’s name and used his death for political gain. This needs to stop now. They can vomit all the hate they want about illegal immigrants, the border crisis and even untrue claims about fluffy pets being ravaged and eaten by community members. However, they are not allowed, nor have they ever been allowed, to mention Aiden Clark from Springfield, Ohio,” said Clark.

“I will listen to them one more time to hear their apologies. To clear the air, my son, Aiden Clark, was not murdered. He was accidentally killed by an immigrant from Haiti. This tragedy has been all over this community, the state and even the nation. But don’t spin this towards hate,” he continued.

In a post on X on Tuesday, Vance alluded to Clark’s death by saying a “child was murdered by a Haitian migrant” on X. In the same post, Vance also repeated the falsehoods surrounding Haitian immigrants eating local pets – a rumor brought up again by Trump during Tuesday’s debate with Kamala Harris.
 
Red said:
So, you are saying their commitment, and their very “duties”(!!) included lying if their employer told them to sign a letter that they felt would be a lie if they were to sign it? Are you saying taking their arm industry consulting jobs actually require that they violate their own sense of personal honor and ethics, if their employee says to do so? That they sign statements that they would never sign if they were being honest to their own beliefs?
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I'm not saying any of that. I don't know any of them personally. I've never even met them. I know they are lobbyists. They are accepting payment in exchange for pushing items of interest. Does Lebron really believe Nike is the best shoe ever made? IDK. Maybe. He says it but he is accepting payment in exchange for pushing the interests of Nike, Incorporated. I would not say Lebron is an honorless liar who sold his sole, but I will say that I don't know that Nike is the best shoe even if Lebron said so.
 
Al-O-Meter said:
I'm not saying any of that. I don't know any of them personally. I've never even met them. I know they are lobbyists. They are accepting payment in exchange for pushing items of interest. Does Lebron really believe Nike is the best shoe ever made? IDK. Maybe. He says it but he is accepting payment in exchange for pushing the interests of Nike, Incorporated. I would not say Lebron is an honorless liar who sold his sole, but I will say that I don't know that Nike is the best shoe even if Lebron said so.
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Those generals didn't push an item of interest.
They said trump sucks, not that the military (or whoever is employing them ) is awesome.

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fishonjazz said:
www.yahoo.com

Father of Ohio boy, 11, tells Trump and Vance to stop using son’s death for ‘political gain’

Nathan Clark calls Republicans ‘hate-spewing’ for falsely claiming Aiden Clark was murdered by Haitian immigrant
www.yahoo.com www.yahoo.com

The father of an 11-year-old boy who was killed last year when a minivan driven by an immigrant from Haiti collided with his school bus has asked Donald Trump and JD Vance to stop using his son’s name for “political gain”.

Nathan Clark, the father of Aiden Clark, addressed the forum alongside his wife, Danielle. Speaking at the meeting, Clark said: “I wish that my son, Aiden Clark, was killed by a 60-year-old white man. I bet you never thought anyone would say something so blunt, but if that guy killed my 11-year-old son, the incessant group of hate-spewing people would leave us alone,” the Springfield News-Sun reports.

“Bernie Moreno [the Ohio Republican senate candidate], Chip Roy [the Texas Republican representative], JD Vance and Donald Trump … have spoken my son’s name and used his death for political gain. This needs to stop now. They can vomit all the hate they want about illegal immigrants, the border crisis and even untrue claims about fluffy pets being ravaged and eaten by community members. However, they are not allowed, nor have they ever been allowed, to mention Aiden Clark from Springfield, Ohio,” said Clark.

“I will listen to them one more time to hear their apologies. To clear the air, my son, Aiden Clark, was not murdered. He was accidentally killed by an immigrant from Haiti. This tragedy has been all over this community, the state and even the nation. But don’t spin this towards hate,” he continued.

In a post on X on Tuesday, Vance alluded to Clark’s death by saying a “child was murdered by a Haitian migrant” on X. In the same post, Vance also repeated the falsehoods surrounding Haitian immigrants eating local pets – a rumor brought up again by Trump during Tuesday’s debate with Kamala Harris.
Click to expand...
Disgusting behavior. Just what the religious right wants apparently.
 
Al-O-Meter said:
. I would not say Lebron is an honorless liar who sold his sole, but I will say that I don't know that Nike is the best shoe even if Lebron said so.
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For what they may cost, I’m sure the soles of his shoes are fine. Sorry, a cheap joke, couldn’t resist….

Anyway, again, I’m not sure of your point, other than maybe they don’t really believe what they signed. And maybe they believe every word. And maybe Gen. Kelly was being very accurate when saying Trump has no idea what service to others is, what sacrifice for something larger than one’s self is, that, remarkably, is an unknown concept to Trump. I’m not going to be surprised if other members of the military, former members of the military see Trump in the same light as Kelly and others.
 
Red said:
For what they may cost, I’m sure the soles of his shoes are fine. Sorry, a cheap joke, couldn’t resist….

Anyway, again, I’m not sure of your point, other than maybe they don’t really believe what they signed. And maybe they believe every word. And maybe Gen. Kelly was being very accurate when saying Trump has no idea what service to others is, what sacrifice for something larger than one’s self is, that, remarkably, is an unknown concept to Trump. I’m not going to be surprised if other members of the military, former members of the military see Trump in the same light as Kelly and others.
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Honestly all the evidence shows that Trump only understands service to Trump.
 
Trump attracts the finest people and the intellectual leaders of the MAGA movement…

www.nbcnews.com

Before Trump, neo-Nazis pushed false claims about Haitians as part of hate campaign

An extremist group that marched in Springfield, Ohio, and demonized Haitian immigrants saw Trump's mention of baseless rumors at the debate as a victory: “This is what real power looks like.”
www.nbcnews.com www.nbcnews.com

The day after the presidential debate at which former President Donald Trump spread a false story about Haitian immigrants eating pets in Springfield, Ohio, Christopher Pohlhaus, leader of the national neo-Nazi group Blood Tribe, took to his Telegram channel to take credit.

Pohlhaus, a Marine-turned-tattoo artist known as “Hammer” to his hundreds of followers, wrote Blood Tribe had “pushed Springfield into the public consciousness.”

Members of his hate group agreed. “The president is talking about it now,” a member wrote on Gab, a Twitter-like service popular with extremists. “This is what real power looks like.”
 
Has to be good news for Harris that Trump is actually hoping Laura Loomer can help him. Probably influenced some of his debate nonsense, since she rode with him to the debate.

Remarkably, despite Loomer being a leading proponent of “9-11 was an inside job”, Loomer was Trump’s guest at the 9-11 memorial this week!

www.nbcnews.com

Far-right activist Laura Loomer's access to Trump reveals a crisis in his campaign

Loomer, who has pushed a number of conspiracy theories, was on Trump's plane to the debate and accompanied him to memorial services on Sept. 11.
www.nbcnews.com www.nbcnews.com
 
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