The costs of gay marriage

[Stoked]

You're cheating by blurting out the truth. Ssshhhh!

Except when you tried that trick on me and it didn't work. You suggested changing the name of religious cermonies from marriage to something else and I was fine with it.

 

[One Brow]

Since you had previously reference "western civilization", I'm assuming that's what you mean by "we".

Were we the first ones to elect someone by popular vote?

I think so.

Were we the first ones to free slaves?

You mean, make slavery illegal? IIRC Japan was first near 1100, but I don't think the Finns in the 1300s were aware of it.

Were we the first ones to believe in the notion of personal liberty?

Again, I think so.

No. All these things were already done by people that came well before us.

I believe most of them were innovations by us, even if we were not chronologically first.

But the definition of what a family is (man/woman - husband/wife) has never been in doubt. No one has questioned it. Till now.

Historically inaccurate.

 

[One Brow]

Except when you tried that trick on me and it didn't work. You suggested changing the name of religious cermonies from marriage to something else and I was fine with it.

From what I recall, you are not opposed to gay marriage. So, the "trick" wasn't designed for you.

 

[One Brow]

On that point I agree with you 100% I haven't called anyone a bigot, nor do I think holding to one's moral and religious teachings automatically makes them a bigot.

If the moral and religious teachings themselves teach bigotry, how can you avoid being a bigot when holding to them?

 

[One Brow]

I think anyone that when asked: "Do you support same-sex marriage?" responds with, "No." That unjustly the majority of the left will label that person as a bigot.

I am still waiting to hear an argument against same-sex marriage that does not rely on bigotry/intolerance in some fashion. When I come across such an argument, I will be glad to so acknowledge.

 

[Stoked]

From what I recall, you are not opposed to gay marriage. So, the "trick" wasn't designed for you.

So you admit to trying to catch people with word games and trip them up? If you didn't play such games than clearly you would have just stated so instead of saying the trick was not designed for me.

 

[Stoked]

I am still waiting to hear an argument against same-sex marriage that does not rely on bigotry/intolerance in some fashion. When I come across such an argument, I will be glad to so acknowledge.

Round and round the mulberry bush..

 

[One Brow]

what you are offering me is second class status as citizen in your idealized state, ...

I am offering you the same level of citizenship that I possess, and the only one to which I aspire. I am offering the you same restrictions on you, for your dislike of same-sex marriage, that an atheist might have for a religious assembly, a Baptist for a Mormon assembly, a white-supremacist for an interracial marriage, a young person for an older worker (and vice-versa), etc. If you want to call your imability to force other people to live by your own standards, even when they do not harm to you or others, as "second-class citizenship", then I will proudly take my second-class citizenship, and strive to make sure there are no people who achieve the first-class citizenship you so long for.

 

[Zombie]

yah I deleted the post. yah I still think you're 19, maybe. based on your arguments and style, which old dudes usually drift away from after a while. maybe.

I'm nobody's victim. I see you reaching deep to come up with some kind of psychobabble dismissive or marginalizing framework for misconstruing my comments. And hell yeah. Nobody's got the Superiority edge on today's crop of progressives.hi

I think you'd have to re-think your own comments if you actually re-read mine.

Maybe I will. Oh wait you deleted them, I wonder why...
How are my arguments and style indicative of someone younger and less wise than yourself? Or is it simply that you can't argue them successfully and so resort to belittling?
Psychobabble? Where did I use anything even approaching psychobabble?

 

[One Brow]

So you admit to trying to catch people with word games and trip them up? If you didn't play such games than clearly you would have just stated so instead of saying the trick was not designed for me.

Good joke.

 

[Stoked]

Good joke.

Yeah it made me smile.

 

[colton]

If you can't tell the difference between a behavior that expresses hatred, and one that does not, then you are treating someone with hatred.

Some examples from recent studies:

After controlling for dress, background, speech patterns, etc., black and white men went to various locations in New York looking for employment. For every group, people without a criminal record were hired/upgraded at a much higher rate than those with a criminal record. However, white men with a criminal record were hired/upgraded at about the same rate as as black men without a criminal record. You will find very few employers in New York that say they hate black people, but in their hiring, they treat black people as if they were criminals. How is that different from treating them with hatred? Do you think that it matters to a black applicant whether the employer feels hatred, if he typically will be treated like a criminal regardless?

After controlling for other background issues, resumes examined by employers typically rated applicants with typically female names as similarly qualified to applicants with typically male names who were a full degree status lower (that is, women with bachelors were rated as about the same as men with associates, women with masters as about the same as men with bachelors). There was little difference in this effect between male and female employers, and very few of the employers would say they hate women. Yet, how is this evaluation pattern different from those who say they hate women? Does it really matter to women applicants is the evaluator feels hatred, when they will be treated as less worthy of a job regardless?

OK, I see what you're talking about.

Back to the immediate situation... I personally think your behavior in this thread has been expressing hatred for people who are in favor of traditional marriage. Does that make you a bigot?