The Jazz are in desperate need of a leader

[framer]

I would like to spend a day hanging with Rudy Gobert. Is he just intense with basketball or is he hardscrabble all of the time. If the restaurant screws up; his steak, does he pick it up and throw it back to the kitchen? Does he yell at jaywalkers for Jackpotting around. Because, although I was not around at the time, I imagine he plays the same way Jerry Sloan played when he was a player. In fact, I'll bet Jerry approves of the way Gobert jackpots around. . .

 

[fishonjazz]

Kanter may start but he got the least minutes last night.

Would The Corpse of Kendrick Perkins be a decent third big (off the bench should we not keep Kanter) and leader?

NO, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD PLEASE NO KENDRICK PERKINS!

spot on using corpse in his title

 

[fishonjazz]

A. Hayward and Gobert are both developing into leaders for the future.

The way gobert progresses so fast I have no doubt that he will be the vocal leader of this team.

Haywards leadership shows itself from time to time and his play does alot of the talking for him.
Hayward is playing like a MAN this year... can't ask for much more from the dude right now than what he is giving us.
This is the dude who got booed on draft night and in just 4.5 years has turned into the best player on the team.

 

[fishonjazz]

"Your right, I switched from Jim Beam, and moved on to Henessey tonight, at least I'm of age to buy either one. And you know what, Gordon doesn't show leadership qualities, he doesn't make other players around him better. He doesn't!!! I am not blaming him for lack of development, because that's not his job. And thats my point. Leaders make their surrounding team mates better, even though its not their prime responsibility and that why they are leaders. They go above and beyond. Hayward is not that guy, its not his fault, its just not who he is. Stop missing nap time, and waking up miserable. Please!! This is exhausting."

Is your argument a result of actually looking at stats, listening to a podcast of someone who has actually looked at stats, or just your own eyeball?

On his podcast, Davi Locke has addressed this issue a couple of times and has provided actual stats, which show that when Hayward is on the floor, the adjusted +/- of his fellow teammates is significantly higher than when he's not on the floor. Locke has also compared different combinations of players with and without Hayward on the floor, and finds that just about every combination looked at performs better with Hayward on the floor. I can't remember the actual stats he cited, so I'm going by memory, so while the precise details may be off, the message Locke was communicating his that Hayward, in fact, DOES make he teammates better and does so significantly.

If someone has access to these or other stats, I'd welcome seeing them.

And to forestall the inevitable debate, yes I do find Locke to be a very credible and well informed Jazz insider, but who also cites statistics when making these kind of arguments.

BUT, as far as I can remember, you are wrong.

Here's one blurb on this, not definitive, I'm sure there's more:

Hayward’s best talent is what he does for his teammates.

When Hayward was on the floor, Favors shot 54%. When Hayward was off the floor, Favors shot 46%. The same goes for almost everyone on the Jazz last year. Trey Burke’s EFG% was 46.5% with Hayward on and 39.8% with him off. The same applies to Richard Jefferson (55.6% vs. 51%), Alec Burks (50.5% vs. 47%) and Enes Kanter (50.5% vs. 46%).

Good post

 

[fishonjazz]

Boston - Shane Battier
Brooklyn - Shane Battier
New York - Shane Battier
Philadelphia - Shane Battier
Toronto - Shane Battier
Dallas - Shane Battier
Houston - Shane Battier
Memphis - Shane Battier
New Orleans - Shane Battier
San Antonio - Shane Battier
Chicago - Shane Battier
Cleveland - Shane Battier
Detroit - Shane Battier
Indiana - Shane Battier
Milwaukee - Shane Battier
Denver - Shane Battier
Minnesota - Shane Battier
Oklahoma City - Shane Battier
Portland - Shane Battier
Atlanta - Shane Battier
Golden State - Shane Battier
Charlotte - Shane Battier
LAC - Shane Battier
LAL - Shane Battier
Miami - Shane Battier
Orlando - Shane Battier
Phoenix - Shane Battier
Washington - Shane Battier
Sacramento - Shane Battier

Holy crap that's funny

 

[doubledribble]

We are not a bad team. So why do we have a losing record?

Because other teams are better?

 

[Dr. Jones]

Testing

 

[Revolution 9]

Duncan is one of the best leaders of our generation.

 

[tleikheen]

No their not ,they are already led by Hayward and Favors ....two guys NBA teams have to gameplan for

 

[DForceAUS]

No their not ,they are already led by Hayward and Favors ....two guys NBA teams have to gameplan for

Agreed-Hayward and Favors now- Gobert as well and although some dont like him I say Ingles, next season he goes back to the bench but he'll do his bit from there still

 

[stitches]

Gobert has already assumed the leadership role in defense and is directing the team defense(as well as pushing Kanter towards the man he has to rotate to)... I feel like he has it in him to be a leader. Favors to me is not assertive enough to be a leader.

 

[Primetime]

Gordon Hayward:

"There’s a lot of teaching that goes on in those sessions. Coach Snyder and his assistants break down how we need to guard things, what we did wrong in previous games and what we should have done. But it’s not a one way street. Guys will chime in during the session about what they’re seeing. We’ll have a discussion about things. It creates a dialogue that helps all of us communicate better.

As you become better acquainted and more bonded with your teammates, it becomes easier to critique each other. Everybody knows that your intentions are good. As a leader on this team, part of my job is to lead those conversations.

I feel comfortable doing that. There have been times where I’ve stopped practice and posed questions to my teammates. I’ll ask somebody what they thought of what they saw, and what everybody else was seeing. Coach has encouraged me to step up and do things like that. He feels that there’s a lot of value in hearing feedback from one of your peers — someone that’s in the same spot as you."

Dr. Q is amazing! Everybody is buying in. Coach is trying to teach the right way and our players are responding. Nobody knows how it will play out but Q might be one of the best things that happened to us in a long time at least from a development standpoint.

 

[Deleted member 848]

Coach Q is a total brain-- but with charisma. The athletes know it, too. So long as Quin doesn't burn out (don't think he will just yet), I can see him being here for a while.

 

[Lakers_Slapper]

"Your right, I switched from Jim Beam, and moved on to Henessey tonight, at least I'm of age to buy either one. And you know what, Gordon doesn't show leadership qualities, he doesn't make other players around him better. He doesn't!!! I am not blaming him for lack of development, because that's not his job. And thats my point. Leaders make their surrounding team mates better, even though its not their prime responsibility and that why they are leaders. They go above and beyond. Hayward is not that guy, its not his fault, its just not who he is. Stop missing nap time, and waking up miserable. Please!! This is exhausting."

Is your argument a result of actually looking at stats, listening to a podcast of someone who has actually looked at stats, or just your own eyeball?

On his podcast, Davi Locke has addressed this issue a couple of times and has provided actual stats, which show that when Hayward is on the floor, the adjusted +/- of his fellow teammates is significantly higher than when he's not on the floor. Locke has also compared different combinations of players with and without Hayward on the floor, and finds that just about every combination looked at performs better with Hayward on the floor. I can't remember the actual stats he cited, so I'm going by memory, so while the precise details may be off, the message Locke was communicating his that Hayward, in fact, DOES make he teammates better and does so significantly.

If someone has access to these or other stats, I'd welcome seeing them.

And to forestall the inevitable debate, yes I do find Locke to be a very credible and well informed Jazz insider, but who also cites statistics when making these kind of arguments.

BUT, as far as I can remember, you are wrong.

Here's one blurb on this, not definitive, I'm sure there's more:

Hayward’s best talent is what he does for his teammates.

When Hayward was on the floor, Favors shot 54%. When Hayward was off the floor, Favors shot 46%. The same goes for almost everyone on the Jazz last year. Trey Burke’s EFG% was 46.5% with Hayward on and 39.8% with him off. The same applies to Richard Jefferson (55.6% vs. 51%), Alec Burks (50.5% vs. 47%) and Enes Kanter (50.5% vs. 46%).

https://www.82games.com/1415/1415UTA.HTM

I'm not saying that his +/- stat isnt higher. I am saying that if he truly was making those better around him, than we would have a better record than what we have. Because thats why we are paying him the money that we are paying him!!!! You can take any player thats a starting 5 player and show a "while on the court and while off the court stat) and its almost always going to show in their favor. I am saying that we would be a lot better with someone else. Who?? I can't answer that because I can't think of any team stupid enough to trade away an asset to gain a player like Hayward. Argue all you want. How many games are we winning??? Whats our track record?? Whats the 3 year track record with who we have??? Keep banking on Hayward. He's a good starter or 6th man, but not a leader. If he was, HE WOULD LEAD US TO SOMETHING!!!!! I would take a sweep in the 1st round of the playoffs compared to what we have to face this season.