The Jazz are in desperate need of a leader

[The Fresh Prince]

Go get Al Pacino. Any Given Sunday Y'all.

 

[Stifle Tower]

We are not a bad team. So why do we have a losing record? We NEED a leader!!! We have some really good pieces for a foundation, but we're in need of a true leader/veteran. Our team is young and they have a lot of potential. I think that we would be a completely different team if we had 1 great leader. Someone who is respected, established, and can guide our younger talent. We are paying Hayward the money to where he should be our guy. But he's not. Don't get me wrong he's a great player but doesn't have the leadership mentality. If he did, we wouldn't be in the situation we're in and players would be showing more development than what they have been showing. My question is, do we have a future leader in the group, and all we need is few years of development?
I think its safe to say that we know what we're going to get out of Favors and Hayward. They haven't reached their peak yet, but we should be able to see what we have. If anyone, I would say Gobert is a possibility even though it will be a couple years to tell. And of course we are all hoping that Exum will work out to be the guy that one day fills that role. Again, 4 years away more than likely.

Sounds to me like YOU need to read what you wrote. You are saying that IF Hayward were a leader, players would be further along than they are now. How is that not placing the blame on Gordon. But that's just me. Admittedly, I have a good grasp of the English language and a memory for what i wrote. Maybe YOU should switch to milk and cookies instead of the Jim Beam that causes you to upchuck such drivel and then not remember what happened when you come to the next morning.

 

[Lakers_Slapper]

Your right, I switched from Jim Beam, and moved on to Henessey tonight, at least I'm of age to buy either one. And you know what, Gordon doesn't show leadership qualities, he doesn't make other players around him better. He doesn't!!! I am not blaming him for lack of development, because that's not his job. And thats my point. Leaders make their surrounding team mates better, even though its not their prime responsibility and that why they are leaders. They go above and beyond. Hayward is not that guy, its not his fault, its just not who he is. Stop missing nap time, and waking up miserable. Please!! This is exhausting.

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

"Your right, I switched from Jim Beam, and moved on to Henessey tonight, at least I'm of age to buy either one. And you know what, Gordon doesn't show leadership qualities, he doesn't make other players around him better. He doesn't!!! I am not blaming him for lack of development, because that's not his job. And thats my point. Leaders make their surrounding team mates better, even though its not their prime responsibility and that why they are leaders. They go above and beyond. Hayward is not that guy, its not his fault, its just not who he is. Stop missing nap time, and waking up miserable. Please!! This is exhausting."

Is your argument a result of actually looking at stats, listening to a podcast of someone who has actually looked at stats, or just your own eyeball?

On his podcast, Davi Locke has addressed this issue a couple of times and has provided actual stats, which show that when Hayward is on the floor, the adjusted +/- of his fellow teammates is significantly higher than when he's not on the floor. Locke has also compared different combinations of players with and without Hayward on the floor, and finds that just about every combination looked at performs better with Hayward on the floor. I can't remember the actual stats he cited, so I'm going by memory, so while the precise details may be off, the message Locke was communicating his that Hayward, in fact, DOES make he teammates better and does so significantly.

If someone has access to these or other stats, I'd welcome seeing them.

And to forestall the inevitable debate, yes I do find Locke to be a very credible and well informed Jazz insider, but who also cites statistics when making these kind of arguments.

BUT, as far as I can remember, you are wrong.

Here's one blurb on this, not definitive, I'm sure there's more:

Hayward’s best talent is what he does for his teammates.

When Hayward was on the floor, Favors shot 54%. When Hayward was off the floor, Favors shot 46%. The same goes for almost everyone on the Jazz last year. Trey Burke’s EFG% was 46.5% with Hayward on and 39.8% with him off. The same applies to Richard Jefferson (55.6% vs. 51%), Alec Burks (50.5% vs. 47%) and Enes Kanter (50.5% vs. 46%).

 

[Dr. Jones]

First, please name the true leaders of each team in the NBA.

 

[8]

First, please name the true leaders of each team in the NBA.

Boston - Shane Battier
Brooklyn - Shane Battier
New York - Shane Battier
Philadelphia - Shane Battier
Toronto - Shane Battier
Dallas - Shane Battier
Houston - Shane Battier
Memphis - Shane Battier
New Orleans - Shane Battier
San Antonio - Shane Battier
Chicago - Shane Battier
Cleveland - Shane Battier
Detroit - Shane Battier
Indiana - Shane Battier
Milwaukee - Shane Battier
Denver - Shane Battier
Minnesota - Shane Battier
Oklahoma City - Shane Battier
Portland - Shane Battier
Atlanta - Shane Battier
Golden State - Shane Battier
Charlotte - Shane Battier
LAC - Shane Battier
LAL - Shane Battier
Miami - Shane Battier
Orlando - Shane Battier
Phoenix - Shane Battier
Washington - Shane Battier
Sacramento - Shane Battier

 

[8]

Jazz don't have a leader since Mo Williams. That guy oozed leadership. He probably ate teh movie Spartacus for breakfast every morning.

 

[Dr. Jones]

I was bitching about the same thing when we had Ty. Less of a concern of mine with Quin.

 

[framer]

I would like to spend a day hanging with Rudy Gobert. Is he just intense with basketball or is he hardscrabble all of the time. If the restaurant screws up; his steak, does he pick it up and throw it back to the kitchen? Does he yell at jaywalkers for Jackpotting around. Because, although I was not around at the time, I imagine he plays the same way Jerry Sloan played when he was a player. In fact, I'll bet Jerry approves of the way Gobert jackpots around. . .

 

[fishonjazz]

Kanter may start but he got the least minutes last night.

Would The Corpse of Kendrick Perkins be a decent third big (off the bench should we not keep Kanter) and leader?

NO, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD PLEASE NO KENDRICK PERKINS!

spot on using corpse in his title

 

[fishonjazz]

A. Hayward and Gobert are both developing into leaders for the future.

The way gobert progresses so fast I have no doubt that he will be the vocal leader of this team.

Haywards leadership shows itself from time to time and his play does alot of the talking for him.
Hayward is playing like a MAN this year... can't ask for much more from the dude right now than what he is giving us.
This is the dude who got booed on draft night and in just 4.5 years has turned into the best player on the team.

 

[fishonjazz]

"Your right, I switched from Jim Beam, and moved on to Henessey tonight, at least I'm of age to buy either one. And you know what, Gordon doesn't show leadership qualities, he doesn't make other players around him better. He doesn't!!! I am not blaming him for lack of development, because that's not his job. And thats my point. Leaders make their surrounding team mates better, even though its not their prime responsibility and that why they are leaders. They go above and beyond. Hayward is not that guy, its not his fault, its just not who he is. Stop missing nap time, and waking up miserable. Please!! This is exhausting."

Is your argument a result of actually looking at stats, listening to a podcast of someone who has actually looked at stats, or just your own eyeball?

On his podcast, Davi Locke has addressed this issue a couple of times and has provided actual stats, which show that when Hayward is on the floor, the adjusted +/- of his fellow teammates is significantly higher than when he's not on the floor. Locke has also compared different combinations of players with and without Hayward on the floor, and finds that just about every combination looked at performs better with Hayward on the floor. I can't remember the actual stats he cited, so I'm going by memory, so while the precise details may be off, the message Locke was communicating his that Hayward, in fact, DOES make he teammates better and does so significantly.

If someone has access to these or other stats, I'd welcome seeing them.

And to forestall the inevitable debate, yes I do find Locke to be a very credible and well informed Jazz insider, but who also cites statistics when making these kind of arguments.

BUT, as far as I can remember, you are wrong.

Here's one blurb on this, not definitive, I'm sure there's more:

Hayward’s best talent is what he does for his teammates.

When Hayward was on the floor, Favors shot 54%. When Hayward was off the floor, Favors shot 46%. The same goes for almost everyone on the Jazz last year. Trey Burke’s EFG% was 46.5% with Hayward on and 39.8% with him off. The same applies to Richard Jefferson (55.6% vs. 51%), Alec Burks (50.5% vs. 47%) and Enes Kanter (50.5% vs. 46%).

Good post