The Jazz ought to trade for Zion Williamson

[NUMBERICA]

Just an FYI some national guys were like "would you even give up one pick for him????" and while its never the perfect indicator I do think his value would be pretty low right now. If you offered the Cavs pick, Collins, and one more future pick I think they might bite. It gets them out of the tax. Its not nothing on our end but maybe we could slap some protections on the pick to make it low downside.

Yeah, if they want a platter of meh for him then I am probably down. I just don’t see that happening.

 

[JimLes]

But if you trade for him and decide to waive him because he didn't meet his played games quota you've just made the worst trade in NBA history (okay, okay, probably not, but it would be a contender).

My idea is mostly trading the Cleveland picks and swaps. I really don't think they're going to be very valuable and we've already got more young players(and are about to get even more) than playing time or roster spots.

And obviously, it would take something of value to pry Zion. If we could send them Clarkson and a 2RP, I'd love that, but it's even more realistic than my original proposal.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

good luck with that. NOP has no intention of trading for him so you'd have to wildly overpay.

New Orleans might not even be a franchise 4 years from now. I dont think anyone knows what their plans are moving forward, including themselves.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

The Great Zion Conundrum is do you sell on him while he looks healthy and has some actual value, or just continue to hold to the point where he becomes Ben Simmons?

I think NOLA is better off moving off him and just trying to build through the next two drafts. The vibes have always been off with him there.

 

[hgb]

My idea is mostly trading the Cleveland picks and swaps. I really don't think they're going to be very valuable and we've already got more young players(and are about to get even more) than playing time or roster spots.

And obviously, it would take something of value to pry Zion. If we could send them Clarkson and a 2RP, I'd love that, but it's even more realistic than my original proposal.

Yeah, CLE picks might all be pretty late, although I'd be ware of trading the last one. It's this year's plus '27 and swaps in '26 and '28, no?
Edit: So we're still several picks away from 4-5 FRP.

 

[Miggs]

This is like asking me to do three long jumps and then saying the very last one is the best predictor of what my 4th one will look like.

It’s actually really not like that at all.

 

[Miggs]

Zion is the antithesis of winning culture. If NO has any brains, as soon as he gets healthy for 25-35 straight games, and he looks good, they should trade him.

 

[Swuul]

Good timing. This thread pops up nine hours after it has been made publically known Zion considers NOLA to be a small-market town, and that he is looking to continue his "career" in either New York or Los Angeles.

 

[NAOS_pt2]

Just an FYI some national guys were like "would you even give up one pick for him????" and while its never the perfect indicator I do think his value would be pretty low right now. If you offered the Cavs pick, Collins, and one more future pick I think they might bite. It gets them out of the tax. Its not nothing on our end but maybe we could slap some protections on the pick to make it low downside.

It would be a no-brainer at that cost. But I'd clam-up pretty quickly once the cost started to rise.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Good timing. This thread pops up nine hours after it has been made publically known Zion considers NOLA to be a small-market town, and that he is looking to continue his "career" in either New York or Los Angeles.

That's just SAS making **** up for ratings.

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

I’m not touching him with a 10 ft pole. Does he even like playing basketball, imo his commitment to his craft is nonexistent. This is his 6th year. Hes played 60 games once and 70 games twice 20+ twice, and only 8 so far. Hes more likely to play 20-30 a year than even 60 a year. So we are planning to risk screwing the tank this and next year why?

 

[fishonjazz]

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but conversational. I think it's relevant to the conversation what Zion's best case scenario looks like and the difference between MVP candidate and borderline allstar is more than just semantics.

I think your reasoning for thinking he can be an MVP candidate is fine. I don't think I can get there which is why I would not give up nearly as much as what you suggested.

Only thing I think is wrong with your best case scenario for Zion conversation is that you used last year for the example when last year wasn't even his best year. I think for a best case scenario you have to use the all star year when he scored 27 per game and then extrapolate that out to an even better year since he is only 24 years old and could possibly improve

An efficient 30 PPG scorer (real best case scenario imo) is typically an MVP candidate imo.

 

[fishonjazz]

I’m not touching him with a 10 ft pole. Does he even like playing basketball, imo his commitment to his craft is nonexistent. This is his 6th year. Hes played 60 games once and 70 games twice 20+ twice, and only 8 so far. Hes more likely to play 20-30 a year than even 60 a year. So we are planning to risk screwing the tank this and next year why?

He has been injured a lot. Being injured doesn't mean he doesn't like playing basketball and it's hard to work on your craft when you are injured.

 

[fishonjazz]

Yeah, CLE picks might all be pretty late, although I'd be ware of trading the last one. It's this year's plus '27 and swaps in '26 and '28, no?
Edit: So we're still several picks away from 4-5 FRP.

Might as well give a couple of our own picks in the trade since we would be planning to be good after the trade which would make our own picks worth less.

 

[SoberasHotRod]

Only thing I think is wrong with your best case scenario for Zion conversation is that you used last year for the example when last year wasn't even his best year. I think for a best case scenario you have to use the all star year when he scored 27 per game and then extrapolate that out to an even better year since he is only 24 years old and could possibly improve

An efficient 30 PPG scorer (real best case scenario imo) is an typically an MVP candidate imo.

Why was he not as good last year then? (I don't know the answer to the question)

I would assume that his injuries have taken a toll on him and maybe other things have changed to make him less effective. Or maybe it could just be a ramp up from being injured the year before, maybe the monthly splits bare that out? I'm not an expert on Zion and haven't followed his career that closely to know.

I would be interested to hear from people who have followed him more closely why they think he can be significantly better than he was last year when he was fully healthy. What was holding him back last year?

 

[gomretat]

I would absolutely go after Zion as long as he is cool with being in SLC. Would love to see he and Lauri on the floor together.

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

He has been injured a lot. Being injured doesn't mean he doesn't like playing basketball and it's hard to work on your craft when you are injured.

Look at his weight issues. It’s a good way to be injured all the time. Hes been accused of not having good rehab work ethics, and when healthy he’s lazy about his conditioning. I see what I see

 

[SoberasHotRod]

Why was he not as good last year then? (I don't know the answer to the question)

I would assume that his injuries have taken a toll on him and maybe other things have changed to make him less effective. Or maybe it could just be a ramp up from being injured the year before, maybe the monthly splits bare that out? I'm not an expert on Zion and haven't followed his career that closely to know.

I would be interested to hear from people who have followed him more closely why they think he can be significantly better than he was last year when he was fully healthy. What was holding him back last year?

I'll answer some of my own questions with a semi-deep dive I just did. I compared his 20/21 season to his 23/24 season to see what the difference was between those two healthy years. I didn't find anything in the monthly splits of the 23/24 season to suggest that he started slow and then was ramping up to his previous form at any point. In fact, he hasn't played much this year, but his numbers are pretty similar to last year.

His usage and efficiency are both down in 23/24 compared to 20/21. His assists are up and rebounds are down. From what I understand NOP started using him as more of a distributor, which probably explains all of the usage being down, but not the efficiency. I would think the efficiency would go up with lower usage.

When I looked at his shooting numbers I think it tells the story pretty clearly. He has shifted a significant number of attempts at the rim to the floater range and his efficiency in the floater range has dropped. In 20/21 he attempted 1.1 floater range shots per game and made 41% of them in 23/24 he attempted 3.5 and made 34% of them. His percentages at the rim only dropped from 65.4% to 64.4%, but he went from attempting 14.3 shots at the rim per game to 11.7.

Have his injuries effected his ability to get to the rim? Has the league adjusted to him in a way that is effecting his ability to get to the rim? Did NOP strategy effect him getting to the rim? I think these are the questions that are important when figuring out if he has the potential to get back to the 20/21 numbers or not.

 

[fishonjazz]

Why was he not as good last year then? (I don't know the answer to the question)

I would assume that his injuries have taken a toll on him and maybe other things have changed to make him less effective. Or maybe it could just be a ramp up from being injured the year before, maybe the monthly splits bare that out? I'm not an expert on Zion and haven't followed his career that closely to know.

I would be interested to hear from people who have followed him more closely why they think he can be significantly better than he was last year when he was fully healthy. What was holding him back last year?

I was simply saying his best case scenario wouldn't be last season since that wasn't his best season and he is only 24 years old. I had no other point to make.
Can he get back to those numbers from his best season? Idk. But that, add a little experience improvement bump, would be his best case scenario. Not his most likely scenario though however.

 

[SoberasHotRod]

I was simply saying his best case scenario wouldn't be last season since that wasn't his best season and he is only 24 years old. I had no other point to make.
Can he get back to those numbers from his best season? Idk. But that, add a little experience improvement bump, would be his best case scenario. Not his most likely scenario though however.

OK, got it. NOW we are just arguing semantics, so I apologize.

To be clear, when I say best case scenario, what I'm referring to is best reasonably likely scenario. If people think it's reasonably likely that a 24 year old improves and gets back to what he had already done before, I can see where they are coming from, and maybe they are right. I can also see the argument that he's been in the league for 6 years and hasn't really improved or added anything to his game, he has had multiple instances that point to him not being serious about basketball, his injuries and the league adjusting to him have minimized his effectiveness, and so it's not reasonably likely he ever gets back to his best season.