The Jazz rebuild

[Darkwing Duck]

After trading Deron for rebuilding pieces, Utah could have justified going into a full rebuild, especially considering that even with Deron, that team had regressed to the point they were looking to miss the playoffs. No doubt a lot of fans would have been pissed. Just like the Moronic GS fans that booed their FO during Mullin's jersey retirement, because they didn't like a rebuilding move that traded the present for the future. I'm pretty sure every single one of those fans would be glad their FO ignored what the fan base thought. It would have been a gamble, just like it was gamble to risk losing 2 borderline all-stars for nothing, when the odds where greatly in favor that rebuilding was inevitable. Just how much we lost on our choice of a gamble remains to be seen.

Sure, but when Williams was traded, Harris had two more years. Jefferson had two more years. Millsap had two more years. Bell had two more years. Rebuilding would have required EVERYONE to go, something that wasn't guaranteed and if you failed to get rid of everyone, then you're hamstrung by the contract. Harris had been an all star, so there was hope the Jazz could compete. Couldn't have traded all of them at the deadline. Jazz had 4 lotto picks coming in the next year, so there was youth and experience. So even more hope that the Jazz could rebuild on the fly. Why tear it down even more when Hayward and Favors were going into their second year, and Kanter and Burks just got drafted? Then the lockout happened, which made deal making incredibly difficult before the season started, then that year the Jazz made the playoffs, giving the Jazz front office more hope that this rebuild would work. Then 2012-2013 happened, which ended all of that. The loss in Memphis really solidified that the team was dead as constructed with Jefferson and Millsap as the lead. Then the rebuild started.

 

[freakazoid]

Sure, but when Williams was traded, Harris had two more years. Jefferson had two more years. Millsap had two more years. Bell had two more years. Rebuilding would have required EVERYONE to go, something that wasn't guaranteed and if you failed to get rid of everyone, then you're hamstrung by the contract. Harris had been an all star, so there was hope the Jazz could compete. Couldn't have traded all of them at the deadline. Jazz had 4 lotto picks coming in the next year, so there was youth and experience. So even more hope that the Jazz could rebuild on the fly. Why tear it down even more when Hayward and Favors were going into their second year, and Kanter and Burks just got drafted? Then the lockout happened, which made deal making incredibly difficult before the season started, then that year the Jazz made the playoffs, giving the Jazz front office more hope that this rebuild would work. Then 2012-2013 happened, which ended all of that. The loss in Memphis really solidified that the team was dead as constructed with Jefferson and Millsap as the lead. Then the rebuild started.

I have no idea what you're talking about when you say everyone had to go. Either Sap or Al for rebuilding pieces would have been a homerun. If anything, maybe a tweak here or there, but we weren't good enough that we needed to clean house.
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I can understand why Utah did what they did from a business perspective, but from a team-building perspective they dropped the ball, at least for now. IF things still come together in the next few years, then I doubt anyone's going to question what might have been, but if this rebuild turns nasty like it very well could, the lockout season will be the defining moment of when this team could have significantly altered their destiny.

 

[GVC]

What assets did they have in summer of 12?

2 fringe all-stars and 4 cheap, controllable young lottery picks.

Three of those lottery picks who grade out as solid starters (on average) are set to make $38mil combined (roughly), and the other is headed toward restricted free agency. Aside from moving around a bit in the draft and keeping picks (Exum), the only thing DL's added is Hood and a 2017 (likely late) 1st round pick.

I'm not sure Gordo, Favs and Burks are better assets today than they were in the summer of 2012 (in sum, anyway). I'm not convinced Hood + a late 1st round pick is great value for 2 fringe all-stars. Muhammad+Dieng for Burke+Gobert hasn't been settled yet IMO.

 

[Stifle Tower]

After trading Deron for rebuilding pieces, Utah could have justified going into a full rebuild, especially considering that even with Deron, that team had regressed to the point they were looking to miss the playoffs. No doubt a lot of fans would have been pissed. Just like the short-sighted GS fans that booed their FO during Mullin's jersey retirement, because they didn't like a rebuilding move that traded the present for the future. I'm pretty sure every single one of those fans would be glad their FO ignored what the fan base thought. It would have been a gamble, just like it was gamble to risk losing 2 borderline all-stars for nothing, when the odds where greatly in favor that rebuilding was inevitable. Just how much we lost on our choice of a gamble remains to be seen.

Yes, they could have. But they also could have done a nice reboot had Mo been a quality PG and the youngsters progressed a bit faster. Half the board is criticizing DL for NOT keeping Millsap and Carroll. Half the board is saying we should have traded everyone when Deron was shown the door. And half is in support of what DL is doing now. Oh, except half think he isn't tanking ENOUGH!

Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. He could draft the next Kobe and have Exum turn into Magic and he'd still get criticized for something.

 

[Coach Ellis]

Yes, they could have. But they also could have done a nice reboot had Mo been a quality PG and the youngsters progressed a bit faster. Half the board is criticizing DL for NOT keeping Millsap and Carroll. Half the board is saying we should have traded everyone when Deron was shown the door. And half is in support of what DL is doing now. Oh, except half think he isn't tanking ENOUGH!

Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. He could draft the next Kobe and have Exum turn into Magic and he'd still get criticized for something.

He should have figured out a way to get Wiggins to go with Exum. #MapleJordan.

 

[Coach Ellis]

In all seriousness, my biggest complaint about the rebuilding effort is a couple of missteps that would have been huge gets for the Jazz.

I was one of the big fans of Giannis Antetokounmpo in the draft. I wanted them to swing for the fences and he was at the top of my list (followed closely by Schroeder, Adams and Gobert.) I loved his size and athleticism combination and thought he'd fit in perfectly with Hayward/Burks out on the wing.

I'd have also pushed to trade up for K. J. McDaniels. Thought he'd be a great perimeter defender, and so far he has looked great. I think that the tank/rebuilding efforts would look pretty stellar if the Jazz had ended up with Antetokounmpo, Gobert, Neto, Exum, Hood and McDaniels from the past two drafts. As it is, I think Burke is probably not in the team's long term plans and their perimeter defense still sucks. Oh well.

 

[freakazoid]

Without risk/progressive management, the Warriors would still be trying to ride Ellis. Also, I hate to think where this team might be if we hadn't pulled of the D-Will trade, which I also consider to be thinking outside the box.

 

[Stifle Tower]

Without risk/progressive management, the Warriors would still be trying to ride Ellis. Also, I hate to think where this team might be if we hadn't pulled of the D-Will trade, which I also consider to be thinking outside the box.

According to some, there was absolutely no indication he would have bolted when his contract was up. A lot of these decisions, including draft picks are calculated gambles. As you mentioned, We shudder when thinking about a broken down Deron eating up $20M in cap space. The Millers certainly don't have the ability to pay $90M just in luxury taxes (or whatever insane amount Prokhorov ended up paying).

And I love hindsight. Yes, we should have taken Giannis instead of Burke and then traded up to get Schroder. Should have taken George over Hayward, Valanciunas over Kanter and Leonard over Burks. Crystal ball would have also told DL to offer Hayward the same contract as Favors (or slightly higher) because it mattered 0% what he did last season. Someone was going to offer him the max. Would be great to hit on every decision.

Agree we've missed out on some solid players. But I don't see any busts. Burke is disappointing for sure for a #9 pick. But all those high picks are starters and Favors developed nicely as the centerpiece in the Deron deal. Gobert and Hood look like steals. Yep, I wish we could have drafted a franchise player. There were some that are looking like stars who were drafted after the 3rd pick. So we don't have to necessarily "tank." But DL absolutely has to make the next pick count, hope Exum develops and acquire one more player in free agency.

 

[freakazoid]

And I love hindsight..

I prefer vision, and my opinions now are the same as they were before we ever decided to try and scrape into the 8th seed.

 

[freakazoid]

According to some, there was absolutely no indication he would have bolted when his contract was up. .

If by some, you mean the completely naïve, I agree.

 

[Coach Ellis]

For the record, it's not hindsight. I've been "All in" on the youth movement and was really high on Giannis before it became popular. I wanted athletic freaks of nature in 2013 because that's where a guy has a chance to be special. Giannis and Rudy would have been an epic draft that year.

As for K. J. McDaniels, I always advocated buying a late first to grab him as a defensive specialist. I'm still holding out hope that they're one of the teams that makes him an offer this offseason. Philly probably matches, but I'd love to see defensive lineup of Gobert, Favors, Hayward, McDaniels and Exum. That's just nasty.

 

[Stoked]

Mistakes

Not matching on Mathews
Not trading Al and Millsap, or keep Millsap.
Not tanking sooner

Hayward, Mathews, and Millsap would be nice right now.

Obviously, keeping Mathews and Millsap would change a lot of things, and tanking doesn't fit in that picture, but mistakes none the less.

I always felt that we were riding the fence. Either tank and get it over with or start trading picks for players and making other trades and signings to get you somewhere.

Good Decisions

Drafting Hayward, Gobert.....



Conclusions, draft better.

So are we holding DL accountable for KOC and that era FO?

I ask this because people talk about things like tanking sooner and not matching Matthews.

Guess what. That was not DL!

As for drafting lets look at DL's drafts (the last two since that's when he took over). Exum, Burke, Gobert and Hood. I am thrilled with three of them and still have a lot of hope for the 4th.

Yes DL's history is short. But in that time he has gone into a proper rebuild, drafted pretty damn good, moved on from a coach that wasn't going to take us where we wanted the Jazz to be, beefed up scouting and gotten ownership on board with his plan.

Was it perfect? No, there are mistakes (sucha s letting Carroll walk) but overall it has been pretty damn good.