The Jazz's 7 future players?

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I love Harden. He would be a huge addition to this young Jazz team.

With that being said I also really like the idea of Batum. Here is my reasoning. Batum is above average form behind the arc. He has elite length for the SF postion. He is an above average defender (can you imagine a Hayward, Batum and Favors line up defensively? I makes me happy). He will also come about 3 million a year cheaper. Like Cy has mentioned, keeping cap flexibility could be a bigger treasure than any one player not named LeBron.

Those are my thoughts. Take it, leave it or berate me for it.

Agreed. You only pay max money to players you think are the best players on a championship caliber team, or to All-Star big men who play defense.

Also, I don't think it's completely ridiculous to think Hayward can become as good as Harden is this year next season. They put up similar stats in their respective sophomore years in the league. They would also be a fairly redundant pair starting together, and you are going to naturally lose the effectiveness of one by having both of them out there. Not saying I wouldn't love to have them starting together, but I don't think you pay near max money to have a redundant player on the team.

 

[orangello]

Agreed. You only pay max money to players you think are the best players on a championship caliber team, or to All-Star big men who play defense.

Also, I don't think it's completely ridiculous to think Hayward can become as good as Harden is this year next season. They put up similar stats in their respective sophomore years in the league. They would also be a fairly redundant pair starting together, and you are going to naturally lose the effectiveness of one by having both of them out there. Not saying I wouldn't love to have them starting together, but I don't think you pay near max money to have a redundant player on the team.

I agree. Hayward can become just as effective if the offense runs a little less Al iso's and instead allows Hayward to create opportunities. Also, Hayward needs to remember how to play basketball before March rolls around. I love the late season productivity, but it is needed all season long if the Jazz want to be considered a legit title contender.

 

[Revolution 9]

You forgot about Carroll. You know the guy who is getting all the meaningful mins late in games. The guy who is starting for us on our playoff chase.
The guy playing over the guy we drafted #12. He must be apart of the future.

 

[carolinajazz]

I would expect nothing less. These threads are the daily test results of various human beings from volatile menstruating men, egotistical intellectual wannabes, prepubescent delusional children (age need not matter), laid back hipsters,

...is a laid back hipster related to a "hopper" type NBA player?

 

[BYE]

...is a laid back hipster related to a "hopper" type NBA player?

Maybe Dennis Hopper.

 

[NAOS]

Harden will demand a max-level deal. And, I'd probably pay it. The Jazz, as presently constituted, would be the 3rd or 4th best team in the West with him. When you factor in that we are going to get a lot better.....

Batum is 1 of 2 guys the Blazer organization is committed to. He and LMA. I don't see us getting him.

 

[NAOS]

I'll play... (I'm not assigning positions...)

Favors
Kanter
Millsap
Hayward
Burks
Harden
Marshall

 

[BYE]

Agreed. You only pay max money to players you think are the best players on a championship caliber team, or to All-Star big men who play defense.

I have a question for you Cy. How many max players are there in the NBA? If each team needs to have a max player, then that should make 30. Big Al is our max player right now; Kirilenko and D. Will were before that (if that's what you mean by "max"). James Harden is ranked #8 in the NBA for his offense by Synergy (LeBron is ranked #22). Keep in mind that he is the third option on this team and only 22 years old. He's already in the top 30 in the NBA in scoring (right at 30). Take a look at this list of the top 30 (https://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/scoring-per-game/sort/avgPoints/year/2012/seasontype/2), and then ask yourself how much these guys above him are making. Almost every one is making absurd amounts of money, max by any standard. The point is that Harden is a max player (15 million/year) because 30 teams will pay someone a max salary (you've already alluded to this, but the question of how many max players there are becomes relevant; if you don't pay him someone else does; then who do you pay? Someone worse, because there are only so many players? You could do worse than Harden in my oppinion). He's already more efficient than LeBron and has very few weaknesses in his game. In 3 years, he's in the top 15 in scoring and has incredible efficiency.

Also, I don't understand your point on redundant players because both he and Hayward have very few flaws in their games when Hayward's hitting his shots (Hayward has more than Harden at this point): they both play great defense, can penetrate, dish, shoot the long ball etc. That combo would be incredible, and I think they would compliment each other very well. I also think that Harden is a better choice than Batum because sometimes we need a faster guard to cover players like Wade, Gordon, and Terry. For me it's not a question of how good Harden is; it's a question of how we get him.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

You forgot about Carroll. You know the guy who is getting all the meaningful mins late in games. The guy who is starting for us on our playoff chase.
The guy playing over the guy we drafted #12. He must be apart of the future.

If the thread read "The Jazz's 8 Future Players" I might have included him.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I have a question for you Cy. How many max players are there in the NBA? If each team needs to have a max player, then that should make 30. Big Al is our max player right now; Kirilenko and D. Will were before that (if that's what you mean by "max"). James Harden is ranked #8 in the NBA for his offense by Synergy (LeBron is ranked #22). Keep in mind that he is the third option on this team and only 22 years old. He's already in the top 30 in the NBA in scoring (right at 30). Take a look at this list of the top 30 (https://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/scoring-per-game/sort/avgPoints/year/2012/seasontype/2), and then ask yourself how much these guys above him are making. Almost every one is making absurd amounts of money, max by any standard. The point is that Harden is a max player (15 million/year) because 30 teams will pay someone a max salary (you've already alluded to this, but the question of how many max players there are becomes relevant; if you don't pay him someone else does; then who do you pay? Someone worse, because there are only so many players? You could do worse than Harden in my oppinion). He's already more efficient than LeBron and has very few weaknesses in his game. In 3 years, he's in the top 15 in scoring and has incredible efficiency.

Also, I don't understand your point on redundant players because both he and Hayward have very few flaws in their games when Hayward's hitting his shots (Hayward has more than Harden at this point): they both play great defense, can penetrate, dish, shoot the long ball etc. That combo would be incredible, and I think they would compliment each other very well. I also think that Harden is a better choice than Batum because sometimes we need a faster guard to cover players like Wade, Gordon, and Terry. For me it's not a question of how good Harden is; it's a question of how we get him.

Like I said, I would love to have Harden, but the OP said be realistic. I'm just being realistic. I'm not paying him max money. I understand your point that someone will, but that is the exact trap the had us signing AK to a huge deal.

And again, I agree I would love to have Hayward and Harden together, but I'd rather not have them both if they are both going to be huge money players. I would rather disperse that money to make the team more well rounded, and keep the money free to secure our two young big men in the case they both become great.

I would offer Harden a 4 year contract worth 45 million. That is as high as I would go. Someone else is going to offer him a similar contract, and unless the guy really likes nature walks through snowy mountains, he is probably going to go somewhere else.

Trade for him? Only if OKC allows us to talk to Harden before we trade for him and make sure he is willing to sign some sort of extension with us, otherwise I don't want to risk giving a division rival some free players for a 1 year rental.

 

[orangello]

I don't think that every team needs a max player. When you have that thought in mind you get ugly contracts that then basically become untradeable. I really like Harden but I would try and offer him just below max. I also think that Eric Gordon could do nearly the same thing.

If the Jazz had Gordon and Hayward, the state of Indiana might just completely convert to become Jazz fans.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I don't think that every team needs a max player. When you have that thought in mind you get ugly contracts that then basically become untradeable. I really like Harden but I would try and offer him just below max. I also think that Eric Gordon could do nearly the same thing.

If the Jazz had Gordon and Hayward, the state of Indiana might just completely convert to become Jazz fans.

Gordon could, and he is actually a better scorer IMO, but his injury history is a huge concern.

 

[GVC]

Harden will demand a max-level deal. And, I'd probably pay it. The Jazz, as presently constituted, would be the 3rd or 4th best team in the West with him. When you factor in that we are going to get a lot better.....

Batum is 1 of 2 guys the Blazer organization is committed to. He and LMA. I don't see us getting him.

Batum is a free agent this summer, and the Jazz won't have cap space. Further, Paul Allen has always been willing to spend, so it's unlikely he doesn't match any offer sheet. The only way the Jazz are getting Batum is in a sign-and-trade, but they'd have to give up assets, and I doubt the Blazers want Big Al...

Harden will be a free agent in 2013, and the Jazz will have loads of money. Yes, it will require a max deal to sign him, but that only means about $15mil per over 4 years under the new CBA. If the Jazz throw that at him, and no one else does, it's possible OKC doesn't match, especially if Ibaka makes another leap next season and gets a good offer in the summer.

In short, the Jazz probably won't be able to land either player, but Harden is an easier get.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Batum is a free agent this summer, and the Jazz won't have cap space. Further, Paul Allen has always been willing to spend, so it's unlikely he doesn't match any offer sheet. The only way the Jazz are getting Batum is in a sign-and-trade, but they'd have to give up assets, and I doubt the Blazers want Big Al...

Harden will be a free agent in 2013, and the Jazz will have loads of money. Yes, it will require a max deal to sign him, but that only means about $15mil per over 4 years under the new CBA. If the Jazz throw that at him, and no one else does, it's possible OKC doesn't match, especially if Ibaka makes another leap next season and gets a good offer in the summer.

In short, the Jazz probably won't be able to land either player, but Harden is an easier get.

There have been many reports about Paul Allen becoming disinterested in the Blazers and wanting to scale back spending on them.

I remember him being one of the "hardline" owners in the CBA talks also, despite being one of the richest owners.

 

[BluesRocker]

Anybody worried about Batum's injuries?

I just remember his knee going out against us. Whats the story with that?

 

[Brown Notes]

I don't like the idea of a rookie PG. This team needs a vet pure point. Harris is a good player, has been out of his mind lately but just isn't a good enough playmaker. Nash, Rondo or Deron.

Besides that all this team really needs is maybe one solid vet wing and a backup C if we move Al.

So... let's say Al goes to Philly, AI goes to Indy and Granger comes to Utah. Sign and trade deal Nash for Devin.

Nash
Hayward
Granger
Millsap
Favors

Kanter
Burks

 

[GVC]

There have been many reports about Paul Allen becoming disinterested in the Blazers and wanting to scale back spending on them.

I remember him being one of the "hardline" owners in the CBA talks also, despite being one of the richest owners.

Still, dude's a free agent, and the Jazz don't have space. Unless Harris+ or Al+ gets it done (the former is far more likely than the latter), Batum's not coming to Utah. If OKC wants to keep Durrant, Westbrook, Ibaka and Harden, they'll probably have to pay the tax OR jettison Kendrick Perkins. If the Jazz throw a 4 year offer sheet (at $15mil per) at Harden, it's possible the Thunder don't match. The Jazz have signed a few comparable restricted free agents to offer sheets in the past (Terry, Maggette, Okur), but teams generally match. 2013 is an odd year, however, and the Thunder may not want to venture into the LT.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Still, dude's a free agent, and the Jazz don't have space. Unless Harris+ or Al+ gets it done (the former is far more likely than the latter), Batum's not coming to Utah. If OKC wants to keep Durrant, Westbrook, Ibaka and Harden, they'll probably have to pay the tax OR jettison Kendrick Perkins. If the Jazz throw a 4 year offer sheet (at $15mil per) at Harden, it's possible the Thunder don't match. The Jazz have signed a few comparable restricted free agents to offer sheets in the past (Terry, Maggette, Okur), but teams generally match. 2013 is an odd year, however, and the Thunder may not want to venture into the LT.

60 million for 4 years at Harden? No thanks. We can sign Batum. Utah has shown it is willing to go into the LT for a year or two. At least give him an offer sheet to screw over Portland like they did to us.

I also don't understand how we don't have space. We only have 1 big contract in Jefferson, the next biggest are Harris and Millsap, who aren't that expensive. I'm pretty sure we have space to sign Batum.

 

[BluesRocker]

Harden only makes sense if we play him at PG. Which I am all for. He should be playing it in OKC


Pg- harden
Sg - Hayward/Burks
Sf- Millsap(I don't care what anyone says Millsap can play the 3)
Pf- Favors
C- Kanter/ Fesenko

 

[GVC]

We can sign Batum. Utah has shown it is willing to go into the LT for a year or two. At least give him an offer sheet to screw over Portland like they did to us.

I also don't understand how we don't have space. We only have 1 big contract in Jefferson, the next biggest are Harris and Millsap, who aren't that expensive. I'm pretty sure we have space to sign Batum.

The Jazz have $53mm in contracts for next season. The salary cap this season is $58mm.The Jazz do not have the cap space to sign Batum to an offer sheet big enough that Portland won't match. Why is this so hard to understand?