The Julius Randle for Mike Conley article.


LoPo

Well-Known Member




If the Knicks decide to waive the 25-year old Portis, the Jazz can use their mid-level exception which is currently pegged to start at $9.7 million but could end up lower due to the revenue loss as a result of the pandemic. The Jazz also has its bi-annual exception of $3.8 million which again could become lower pending the new salary cap.

The Jazz insider added that “nothing is concrete (with regards to plans of trading Conley) but the Jazz will always listen to offers.”


Sent from my SM-G970U using JazzFanz mobile app
 

Handlogten's Heros

Well-Known Member
2019 Award Winner




If the Knicks decide to waive the 25-year old Portis, the Jazz can use their mid-level exception which is currently pegged to start at $9.7 million but could end up lower due to the revenue loss as a result of the pandemic. The Jazz also has its bi-annual exception of $3.8 million which again could become lower pending the new salary cap.

The Jazz insider added that “nothing is concrete (with regards to plans of trading Conley) but the Jazz will always listen to offers.”


Sent from my SM-G970U using JazzFanz mobile app
Portis does not fit the "defensive integrity" ideal that DL has been trumpeting.

NY basically make every player look worse than they are, but that said I was completely unimpressed by him this year. Had been interested in the past. If he was cheap... like BAE cheap or a make good minimum deal like with Mudiay... and the plan was to give him the Niang minutes then sure.
 

LoPo

Well-Known Member
Portis does not fit the "defensive integrity" ideal that DL has been trumpeting.

NY basically make every player look worse than they are, but that said I was completely unimpressed by him this year. Had been interested in the past. If he was cheap... like BAE cheap or a make good minimum deal like with Mudiay... and the plan was to give him the Niang minutes then sure.
Yeah, I'm not so sure on this Portis addition. I mean, I like the potential, but he isn't going to sign for the BAE. We need a perimeter defender more than anything so I don't want to dip into the MLE to sign Portis.

It's so important that we find a way to dump Ed Davis and/or Bradley. Could we get a future 2nd from Charlotte for Bradley? Can we trade Ed Davis for Herzonja or another smaller deal?
 

Handlogten's Heros

Well-Known Member
2019 Award Winner
Yeah, I'm not so sure on this Portis addition. I mean, I like the potential, but he isn't going to sign for the BAE. We need a perimeter defender more than anything so I don't want to dip into the MLE to sign Portis.

It's so important that we find a way to dump Ed Davis and/or Bradley. Could we get a future 2nd from Charlotte for Bradley? Can we trade Ed Davis for Herzonja or another smaller deal?
Portis may have tanked his value so BAE may be his only option... He might want to be here to participate in our development program.

We ain't getting **** for Bradley, but I think we could dump him into someones space (like detroit) without giving up value. Ed will cost us a second for sure.

My hope is we could package them together with a second or two to do a sign and trade with Favs. Another avenue would be to send a second with Ed in a sign and trade for Noel. Not sure if OKC goes scorched earth and collects picks or if they would try to keep him. Unless we get some sort of cap relief (like the luxury tax level is set higher) we won't be using the MLE and retaining JC.
 

LoPo

Well-Known Member
Portis may have tanked his value so BAE may be his only option... He might want to be here to participate in our development program.

We ain't getting **** for Bradley, but I think we could dump him into someones space (like detroit) without giving up value. Ed will cost us a second for sure.

My hope is we could package them together with a second or two to do a sign and trade with Favs. Another avenue would be to send a second with Ed in a sign and trade for Noel. Not sure if OKC goes scorched earth and collects picks or if they would try to keep him. Unless we get some sort of cap relief (like the luxury tax level is set higher) we won't be using the MLE and retaining JC.
If Portis takes the BAE, what a win that would be.

I think Charlotte, who has cap space, might have interest in Bradley since he's a local product from UNC and they need help at center. They have an extra 2nd rounder in 2020 and 2021. Maybe he's worth the gamble for them.

Ed Davis has to be traded. Just has to. He has value, but did not fit here. There has to be some team out there willing to resurrect his career.
 

NUMBERICA

Well-Known Member
Just Curious:
Would New York Accept Mike Conley (and possibly a 1st rounder) for Bobby Portis, trade machine checks out.
NY gets a veteran mentor, expiring money and a possible draft pick. Jazz get an athletic wing that we so desperately need and are left with 17 mil in cap.
If we could then go get Evan Fournier, free agent from the Magic , it would be huge. We'd get bigger, take a massive step forward defensively(one of the best defensive ratings for SGs), and get a solid scorer (18 ppg). Fournier does play for team France, so there is a connection with Rudy Gobert. Could also leave room to pick up Favors and/or a wing if Fournier goes else where.

Lineup:
PG Donovan / Clarkson
SG Fourier / Royce
SF Bogey / Ingles
PF Porter
C Rudy Gobert
New York has a team option and if they don’t want to pay Portis then they can just not pick up the option. New York is also under the cap, so they can take in as much salary (up to hitting the soft cap) as they’d like.

In other words, Portis is not at all important in making a deal work.

Whether New York ends up being a viable dumping spot for Conley depends on a lot of variables, mostly:
-where that ranks on New York’s wishlist (kinda sketchy IMO)
-the willingness of the Jazz to accept the L on the optics regarding the Conley deal (I am not hopeful they are willing and this FO has a track record of doubling down on failed endeavors).
-Salary that the Knicks are surely trying to jettison for next year’s free agency bonanza. Julius Randle’s name has come up for a reason but I think that would be a bad idea unless they can find a 3rd team to take him.
 

NUMBERICA

Well-Known Member
uh? you are missing the point here. With Rudy and DM's extensions and Bojan, Joe, Royce on the payroll, it makes no difference whether or not Conley is here. From now on, you are looking at the draft, trades and MLE to improve the team. The salary cap is gone with or without Conley.
Not true. It’s a big if, but if they can dump his contract this offseason, they will have about $25 million in cap space (saying nothing of Clarkson and either his team-signing or his cap hold or whatever longer term salary that would probably come in the trade). Rudy and Donovan’s extensions/re-ups wouldn’t kick in until next year.

If the Jazz are going to make a play with cap space this is quite literally their last chance and only avenue to do so until they blow it up.
 
Last edited:

infection

Well-Known Member
Staff member
2018 Award Winner
2019 Award Winner
Portis does not fit the "defensive integrity" ideal that DL has been trumpeting.
I have a sneaking suspicion that DL may over-focus on what he feels would be an ideal defensively of what he's looking for, and make himself rigid and principled in terms of sticking with that without compromise. As a result of this, he may not be paying enough attention to relative improvement and, as a result of not finding someone up to his standard, we fall back on the defaults (Bradley and Niang). That will, obviously, be a huge success. Some real outside-the-box thinking.
 
Last edited:

NUMBERICA

Well-Known Member
I’m still bullish on Portis. Probably irrationally so. Even then, his salary was/his team option is outrageously high. If he hits the market I’d want at least a dialogue with him and his camp.
 

infection

Well-Known Member
Staff member
2018 Award Winner
2019 Award Winner
Not true. It’s a big if, but if they can dump his contract this offseason, they will have about $25 million in cap space (saying nothing of Clarkson and either his team-signing or his cap hold or whatever longer term salary that would probably come in the trade).

If the Jazz are going to make a play with cap space this is quite literally their last chance and only avenue to do so until they blow it up.
Here's why it would never work:

1. DL would not offer a contract based on potential cap space. Only real cap space.
2. DL would never trade Conley to get cap space to make an offer on someone because they don't have an accepted offer in-hand.
3. DL won't have an accepted offer in-hand because of #1.

The closest we got was with knowing we could waive Favors' non-guaranteed. But for him to make an offer contingent on moving someone (which is what lots and lots of teams have done to land the guy they want), that's just too uncharted of territory for DL and probably makes him so anxious that he's paralyzed with indecision.
 

NUMBERICA

Well-Known Member
Here's why it would never work:

1. DL would not offer a contract based on potential cap space. Only real cap space.
2. DL would never trade Conley to get cap space to make an offer on someone because they don't have an accepted offer in-hand.
3. DL won't have an accepted offer in-hand because of #1.

The closest we got was with knowing we could waive Favors' non-guaranteed. But for him to make an offer contingent on moving someone (which is what lots and lots of teams have done to land the guy they want), that's just too uncharted of territory for DL and probably makes him so anxious that he's paralyzed with indecision.
Except that the tampering rules border on unenforceable and there is NO WAY IN HELL the flurry of activity on the opening gun of free agency simply happened in real time. Discussions were happening for weeks among virtually every franchise and several dozens of players.

In either case, Conley has lost a step, is a defensive liability, and does not fit well here because his strengths are duplicitous so I’m not sure what they’re clinging onto.

If he’ll agree to play for a 6MOY award and a re-worked deal where he sheds some salary this year for substantial security on the backend then I would probably be cool with that. At least if it is part of a process that opens up sufficient cap space to add a real piece. But that’s a lot of moving parts and caveats, so:

TLDR; who gives a **** about Conley staying. Find the rip cord and pull that ****.
 

LoPo

Well-Known Member
-the willingness of the Jazz to accept the L on the optics regarding the Conley deal (I am not hopeful they are willing and this FO has a track record of doubling down on failed endeavors).
Normally, I would agree. However, the Jazz are in a very rare environment because of COVID. The NBA is going to take a massive financial hit. The Jazz have to act like a business and survive. If NY is willing to save us $15+ million, it has to be considered.

Do we take Randle? Do we find a 3rd team? Can we get Ntilikina? Do we have to send #23?

These are all fair questions but the truth is this. We have to do whatever is necessary to stay strong financially.
 

NUMBERICA

Well-Known Member
Normally, I would agree. However, the Jazz are in a very rare environment because of COVID. The NBA is going to take a massive financial hit. The Jazz have to act like a business and survive. If NY is willing to save us $15+ million, it has to be considered.

Do we take Randle? Do we find a 3rd team? Can we get Ntilikina? Do we have to send #23?

These are all fair questions but the truth is this. We have to do whatever is necessary to stay strong financially.
Randle is a non-starter topic IMO. Too many question marks, too much long term salary.

But yeah, if they can find a team to take him then you do it in the blink of an eye.
 

Handlogten's Heros

Well-Known Member
2019 Award Winner
Here's why it would never work:

1. DL would not offer a contract based on potential cap space. Only real cap space.
2. DL would never trade Conley to get cap space to make an offer on someone because they don't have an accepted offer in-hand.
3. DL won't have an accepted offer in-hand because of #1.

The closest we got was with knowing we could waive Favors' non-guaranteed. But for him to make an offer contingent on moving someone (which is what lots and lots of teams have done to land the guy they want), that's just too uncharted of territory for DL and probably makes him so anxious that he's paralyzed with indecision.
You forgot #4... DL is a staunch believer in sunk costs and would never make a trade where he moved a guy after giving up so much to bring him in.

Only way we move Conley is if a big overpay offer comes across DL's desk and he had a little extra caffeine that morning and says "what the hell? lets do it!"
 

LoPo

Well-Known Member
Randle is a non-starter topic IMO. Too many question marks, too much long term salary.

But yeah, if they can find a team to take him then you do it in the blink of an eye.
Randle makes $18.9 and Conley $34.5 this year. That $15.6 is a ton of money. In 21-22, Randle is only guaranteed $4 million. I would hate to eat $4 million, but saving 4x that the year before is pretty substantial.

But yes ideally, NY wants Conley and Charlotte wants Randle.
 

latin jazz

Well-Known Member
Not true. It’s a big if, but if they can dump his contract this offseason, they will have about $25 million in cap space (saying nothing of Clarkson and either his team-signing or his cap hold or whatever longer term salary that would probably come in the trade). Rudy and Donovan’s extensions/re-ups wouldn’t kick in until next year.

If the Jazz are going to make a play with cap space this is quite literally their last chance and only avenue to do so until they blow it up.
I didn't say it was impossible. See my follow up to Lopo. It requires finding a team under the cap willing to absorb a massive contract without sending a contract back. It's unlikely to happen. And if it does, it requires to attach assets/picks. I don't see the FO unloading Conley and losing assets in the process in order to be players in a weak free agent class. That's why I think that ship has sailed and thus, we will probably look to make lateral moves, upgrading the bench via draft, trades and MLE.
 

Handlogten's Heros

Well-Known Member
2019 Award Winner
New York has a team option and if they don’t want to pay Portis then they can just not pick up the option. New York is also under the cap, so they can take in as much salary (up to hitting the soft cap) as they’d like.

In other words, Portis is not at all important in making a deal work.

Whether New York ends up being a viable dumping spot for Conley depends on a lot of variables, mostly:
-where that ranks on New York’s wishlist (kinda sketchy IMO)
-the willingness of the Jazz to accept the L on the optics regarding the Conley deal (I am not hopeful they are willing and this FO has a track record of doubling down on failed endeavors).
-Salary that the Knicks are surely trying to jettison for next year’s free agency bonanza. Julius Randle’s name has come up for a reason but I think that would be a bad idea unless they can find a 3rd team to take him.
I think Conley would be fairly high on their list if they miss on Fred Van Vleet or some other young FA. Chris Paul is the other guy but that blows up a ton of space for the following year. Not something they really need to worry about if they continue to be a dumpster fire.
 

Handlogten's Heros

Well-Known Member
2019 Award Winner
I don't see Portis as a huge upgrade. Better rebounder than Niang... might be a worse defender overall. Is he a small ball five? Do you just hope to outscore your opponent?
 

NUMBERICA

Well-Known Member
I don't see Portis as a huge upgrade. Better rebounder than Niang... might be a worse defender overall. Is he a small ball five? Do you just hope to outscore your opponent?
He is a small-ball 5 that can shoot. Could open up some stuff offensively. He is not a hopeless shooter so you might be able to play him alongside Rudy for spurts. Good rebounder. I think in the right environment the crazy in him could make him a “good” 90’s defender (not good but scary), which is more than can be said about anyone else on this Disney-*** team.
 
Top