The next step: Don't educate children at all

[LogGrad98]

Are the workers going to be ALLOWED to join the unions of their own free will, free of undue pressure or coercion from either side? (Google Pinkerton's unions)

Depends on if they are in an open (or Right to Work) state or a closed shop state. The laws governing unions are state-specific.

 

[gandalfe]

Depends on if they are in an open (or Right to Work) state or a closed shop state. The laws governing unions are state-specific.

I meant in reference to @AlaskanAssassin's comment about them being free to join or not join - which I took as a reference to the closed shop states, which is a fair enough concern, although as mentioned then you have the free riders. I have actually seen contracts where it says explicitly, "If you're in the union, you get this, if not, well, good luck." So the wages, benefits, etc, are literally dependent on union membership.

 

[AlaskanAssassin]

Are the workers going to be ALLOWED to join the unions of their own free will, free of undue pressure or coercion from either side? (Google Pinkerton's unions)

Undue pressure is subjective, but generally yes. Businesses should not be able to stop or limit employees from unionizing. That being said, the government shouldn't intervene in the relationship between the employer and the union. There is a lot of power in joining a collective to negotiate the terms of employment, and that can potentially be a great thing for workers. Government shouldn't be able to tip the scales to one side or the other. With that means that employees can end the employment agreement (strike, boycott, change jobs), and so can the employer (shut down a business, hire different people, etc.). Everyone is on an equal playing field.

 

[AlaskanAssassin]

With optional union membership, you get into the free rider problem, unless you think the union should be able to negotiate a limit on the wages of non-members as well, so that the cost of union membership is compensated.

I'm not sure what you mean by "special privileges". I'm in favor of practicality.

I understand the concept of the "free rider problem", but I'm not sure it would manifest itself as much if everyone was left to their own devices to negotiate the terms of employment. If a company had half their workforce under a union, and half not, the half not a part of the union get zero of the potential benefits of those negotiations (growing wages, more time off, etc - whatever terms the unionized members wanted to negotiate). There are very few topics of negotiation between unions and employers that would be almost impossible to segregate between the unionized and not-unionized (safety conditions is the only one I can think of off the top of my head).

There may be employees that want different terms of employment than the union is looking for. Maybe they only want to work 25 hours a week, or they want to work 60. Maybe they would prefer to buy their own health insurance. Maybe they want more pay than the union is able to negotiate on their behalf.

Just my "free-will" individualist perspective.

I'm no union law expert, but the special privileges I'm referring to is just any government intervention on how those union negotiations must happen, or how the relationship is arranged. If the union wants to take their labor elsewhere (to a competitor), they can, if the employer wants to end the relationship, they can.

(Sorry, I didn't mean to hijack this from the original topic)

 

[bigb]

Man, I really wish it were easier to immigrate here. I don’t, however, think that solves all the problems. Or even comes close to it. Honestly, I’m not sure it changes the problem with people come from Central America all that much. So many people are coming across. Even if it were as simple as “fill out this form and pay $100 and we’ll let you in” I don’t think it changes all that much. These people don’t have $100 to afford that. Most of these people are only eating if they work that day.
I think it’s fairly obvious that a lot of these immigrants are going into the construction industry. What’s happening is that the big companies are hiring a subcontractor (1099 pay) that has all the licenses who then hires a “company” (1099 pay) that pays his illegal immigrants under the table. The people with the money are in the clear. It’s the little guy making peanuts that’s actually doing the hiring. I know a guy that is a general contractor. He does nothing but frame houses for Ivory Homes. Ivory pays his company and sends a 1099 at the end of the year. My friend hires three or four individual framing “companies” to actually do the work. He sends them a 1099 at the end of the year. They hire 5 or 6 (illegal) guys and actually do the framing. The price of doing the job has been cut twice already before it gets to the guys actually doing the work. They’re not getting paid hardly anything. If the government comes and investigates, the two biggest guys are in the free and clear. It’s the guy making pennies that gets dinged. Guess what they do? Fold up shop and start over.

 

[One Brow]

(Sorry, I didn't mean to hijack this from the original topic)

That's just what I was thinking. Another thread, another day.

 

[gandalfe]

I said it before, if the current SCOTUS is just going to overturn previous decisions willy nilly, Brown v Board of Education is definitely high on the list of decisions to be worried about.

 

[LogGrad98]

I said it before, if the current SCOTUS is just going to overturn previous decisions willy nilly, Brown v Board of Education is definitely high on the list of decisions to be worried about.

Yeah but I just cannot see any kind of segregation happening again. I think there would be substantial public outcry at that level. Maybe in some pockets, but by and large I think we are past at least that blatant level of racism and racial abuse.

Then again, this is 'MERICA we are talking about. Who knows what the hell will happen in some states.

 

[gandalfe]

Yeah but I just cannot see any kind of segregation happening again. I think there would be substantial public outcry at that level. Maybe in some pockets, but by and large I think we are past at least that blatant level of racism and racial abuse.

Then again, this is 'MERICA we are talking about. Who knows what the hell will happen in some states.

Dude, they'd just call it "racial unrest" and deploy the shock troops.

 

[Deleted member 365]

Yeah but I just cannot see any kind of segregation happening again. I think there would be substantial public outcry at that level. Maybe in some pockets, but by and large I think we are past at least that blatant level of racism and racial abuse.

Then again, this is 'MERICA we are talking about. Who knows what the hell will happen in some states.

I don’t think we’re far from it. After all we’ve seen these past six years especially? Brown v Board could easily be overturned by Trump’s SCOTUS and cheered for overwhelmingly by the right. It would lead to de jure segregation, especially in red states. Segregationists/white supremacists are alive and well. They thinly hide their agenda through “pro choice” vouchers and “critical race theory” hysteria.

You see it currently and locally with Draper wanting to break off from the rest of Canyons School District so those white Draper parents won’t have to see their funds go to support those “others” at Hillcrest, Brighton, Jordan, and Alta High. Overturn Brown v Board? Suddenly Corner Canyon High School eliminates those “others” at their school and dumps them into Jordan or Alta High.

‘Citizen group’ looks to start new school district in Draper

Organizers behind the effort say the goal is to create a smaller, more manageable district that will be more responsive to students and parents.

www.kuer.org

This seems like something out of “Remember the Titans” but it just happened a few years ago:


View: https://twitter.com/Sifill_LDF/status/1522931732462419971?s=20&t=_ONrzl-r62BFSMSri1kxtw

 

[Deleted member 365]

Abbott says Texas could 'resurrect' SCOTUS case requiring states to educate all kids

The comments came after a leaked draft opinion from the U.S. Supreme Court revealed that a majority of justices were considering overturning Roe v. Wade.

news.yahoo.com

Here's a thought: track down all the employers hiring undocumented workers, fine them out the wazoo, and use that money to educate the undocumented children.

The anti immigration crowed won’t make this connection but those who understand economics probably will…


View: https://twitter.com/crampell/status/1522949092258848769?s=20&t=1JqD49bTqtqN_SwxmI_cRA