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The official "let's impeach Trump" thread

I’m just curious, where are you guys getting all of these details about the bills being debated when I see senators complaining about not knowing the details?

Anyone have links?

the link I posted earlier today explained the reservations that Democrats had on giving Donald his slush fund. Resent nearly as detailed as some of your posts. Where are y’all getting your information?
 
The Thriller said:
I think some of you could benefit by reading this thread

Click to expand...
I think that's wrong though. It's like when Republicans say that pro choice people want babies to die. That's not correct. Neither is saying that these people want old people to die. It's not true.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app
 
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I think that people who wanting the economy to get back up and running aren't saying "kill all the old people!" "Or it's ok if old people die, they're just old people"

I think it's more like they are thinking that shutting down the economy will save some old people's lives, yet many will still die AND if the economy dies then many more old and young and everything in between will die from poverty and everything that comes along with poverty (substance abuse, crime, sickness, domestic violence, depression/suicide, starvation, lack of access to clean water and uncontaminated food etc) along with quality of life being another form of something dying. Plus the virus wouldn't simply stop and would continue to kill.

Some people are seeing a "lesser of two evils" kind of situation but it doesn't mean that they are just cool with old people dying necessarily.

There simply are not any good outcomes at this point. There might be some that are less bad than others but that's about it.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app
 
The Thriller said:
I’m just curious, where are you guys getting all of these details about the bills being debated when I see senators complaining about not knowing the details?

Anyone have links?

the link I posted earlier today explained the reservations that Democrats had on giving Donald his slush fund. Resent nearly as detailed as some of your posts. Where are y’all getting your information?
Click to expand...

Just Google the house bill and you can find a copy pretty easily. Try to put forth a little effort.
 
fishonjazz said:
I think that people who wanting the economy to get back up and running aren't saying "kill all the old people!" "Or it's ok if old people die, they're just old people"

I think it's more like they are thinking that shutting down the economy will save some old people's lives, yet many will still die AND if the economy dies then many more old and young and everything in between will die from poverty and everything that comes along with poverty (substance abuse, crime, sickness, domestic violence, depression/suicide, starvation, lack of access to clean water and uncontaminated food etc) along with quality of life being another form of something dying. Plus the virus wouldn't simply stop and would continue to kill.

Some people are seeing a "lesser of two evils" kind of situation but it doesn't mean that they are just cool with old people dying necessarily.

There simply are not any good outcomes at this point. There might be some that are less bad than others but that's about it.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app
Click to expand...

Fish showing the nuance that Thriller lacks.

Bravo!
 
I think the solution has to be localized. For example, North Carolina has ~300 positive cases right now from a base of over 8,400 tests (meaning 96% of tests are negative), and zero deaths. For a state with a population of 10 million, that's a tiny infection rate. They can sit back and gather data for another week or so, but as long as they have hospital capacity, their solution ought to be to adopt some basic social distancing practices, ban all domestic travel to places like NY/NJ/CT, CA, WA and any other hotspot, and see if they can keep their local economy going.

The reality is that people are now going to be spooked by this virus, and a number of economic consequences are going to happen on their own. People will go to restaurants less. They'll travel less and stay in hotels less. They'll avoid crowds on their own. It won't be necessary to mandate all these things.
 
Catchall said:
I think the solution has to be localized. For example, North Carolina has ~300 positive cases right now from a base of over 8,400 tests (meaning 96% of tests are negative), and zero deaths. For a state with a population of 10 million, that's a tiny infection rate. They can sit back and gather data for another week or so, but as long as they have hospital capacity, their solution ought to be to adopt some basic social distancing practices, ban all domestic travel to places like NY/NJ/CT, CA, WA and any other hotspot, and see if they can keep their local economy going.

The reality is that people are now going to be spooked by this virus, and a number of economic consequences are going to happen on their own. People will go to restaurants less. They'll travel less and stay in hotels less. They'll avoid crowds on their own. It won't be necessary to mandate all these things.
Click to expand...
From Italy, this seems like dejavu. This is what happened here...limited measures to begin, then the realization that more restrictive measures were necessary to make any difference in the outcome. First there were red zones and talk of social distancing. People were going to work, restaurants, etc. except in the red zones only. Everyone else was free to live normally. Then it was the whole country on restrictions, but still relatively liberal movement restrictions. Then it was "lock it all down".

There are two characteristics of the virus that make half measures not only ineffective, but dangerous as well.

One - the long incubation time. With up to two weeks before symptoms show, people with the disease spread the virus without knowing it. Some may never show symptoms at all.

Two - the virus persists for extended periods of time on surfaces. Door knobs, tables, car doors, gas pump handles, etc..

Italy learned the hard way that delaying making the choice to lock it down cost them dearly. We are just now starting to see results from measures instituted two weeks ago. Hopefully the trend continues to go down. There is no guarantee it will, but the Italians are taking it seriously and uniting as a people to save the lives of the most vulnerable.

I hope the US learns from their experience.
 
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Just to give a different perspective on what the response has been in other countries.

Peru:
Went into a complete lockdown after 40-50 cases were confirmed, about 8 days ago. High compliance by the population. The government transfered a bonus to poor families to stay home (equivalent to a half month salary). Major corporations are chippin in with millions of $ into the relieve fund. No one is even discussing bailing out major companies. Everything is about containing the disease quickly, helping the most vulnerable and getting things running again in a few weeks. We can't afford this to spread everywhere as the health sector is in really bad shape. The president approval is at 88%. Basic utilities and debt payments has been suspended.

Mexico:
The complete opposite. The president is urging people to go out and keep their daily routine. And people is doing exactly that. With an economy with over 50% on the informal sector, is pretty hard to ask people to stay home. There is no capability for direct transfers here. Local governments and the private sector are trying to deal with the desease on their own. But things are looking grim as the federal government is placing the economy above public health, delaying necessary measures until it's too late.

Just wanted to share there are different perspectives on this. Most economies will fall into a recession anyway and I find it hard to stomach that governments are balancing economic growth/unemployment vs lives. I hope they find a way to help the most vulnerable in US rather than bailing out big corporations and hoping for trickle down economics to work. Maybe is the rich/corporations who need to step up and show solidarity.
 
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