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Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Heathme, Jul 19, 2019.
Okay, you did say "mainstream people." And by that you meant Bill Maher?
Probably cause Trump is a way worse person than Obama and behaves way worse?
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I believe people should be treated appropriate to their behavior just like I was taught when i was a toddler and like I'm teaching my toddler right now.
I think Trump made a big mistake believing he can just throw out all the rules on how to behave as a president and human being.
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Let me be perfectly clear on this:
I don’t support crony capitalism, trade wars/tariffs, and ridiculous tax cuts for the rich that exploded the deficit. These are all unsound economic policies that have been discredited by nearly every credible economist out there. In order to rectify these problems, two things must occur:
I. Trump must be defeated.
II. Those who support these idiotic policies must feel pain.
So if we have an economic recession coming due to poor economic policy, I welcome it. It’s about accountability. Bad decisions, whether they be the electorate electing clowns, and clowns supporting idiotic economic policy, need to be rewarded with appropriate consequences. As trump says, “elections have consequences.”
My hope is that trump and those who support these bad policies feel the pain and are wiped out from power. Let’s give smart professionals control of government and reenact smart and proven economic policy. Let’s restore our democracy that awards and punishes both the electorate and politicians for the good and bad choices they make. Is that really a liberal position btw?
Trumpers and those with personal vendettas against me on this board will try and spin this. But this is my post and it’s pretty clear my position on this.
If we don't have a recession will that change your opinion on those policies being bad?
No. Because a recession isn’t the only indicator of bad economic policies. You don’t throw down nearly a century of economic data because of trump. A recession guaranteed if trump continues to politicize the federal reserve and force it to cut interest prices. The consequences of such might not be felt for years. For example, Nixon was the last president to do what trump is doing. He ran the economy hot which led to skyrocketing inflation that lasted throughout Carter’s administration and the beginning of Reagan’s. Clinton’s Deregulating the financial markets didn’t fully manifest until 2008.
Will politicizing the federal reserve become a thing again? Will future presidents influence the reserve to manipulate interest rates that give them the best chance of reelection? What consequences might we see then? Will we recognize the full effects of trump’s deregulation in a few decades when we see a great financial meltdown?
Wealth inequality, the debt, deregulation, politicizing the federal reserve, and using trade wars instead of traditional diplomacy are all bad decisions that all carry consequences that have varying timetables. A recession might be the clearest and most conveniently seen one. Especially if it happens next year, during the election year.
But you want a recession to convince people not as "educated" as you are that Trump's policies are bad?
This is part of why many Trump supporters will not change their opinions based on data, news reports, popular opinion, etc. It's sort of a fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me type thing, where they feel the liberals have controlled the message and and are cooking the data, the news reports and thus popular opinion so that they can destroy freedom, liberty and free markets and they're just not going to be fooled again, so regardless of "reality" they're sticking to their guns and fighting for what they want to be right.
A recession is not actual evidence that the policies Trump has pushed are good or bad. But if we do have a recession you'll point to that in an argument against Trump's policies and yell "See! I told you so!" and you'll expect Trump supporters to take that seriously? That's the very definition of not being intellectually honest.
Yeah, a recession would just be blamed on the left. No lessons would be learned. Those that would learn the lesson are probably already anti trump.
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I prefer to look at it as accountability.
I want people to be held accountable. If American didn't have the foresight to get into a growing industry, are too stubborn or lazy to get better training/education, and have lived beyond their means, shouldn't they feel the consequences of their foolishness?
I'm sorry but... Sometimes your bad decisions bring bad consequences.
No one forced these people into auto plants or coal mines. No one forced these people to stop going to school at the end of high school. No one forced them into buying mortgages that they couldn't afford. No one forced Republicans in Congress to support trade wars or tax cuts for the rich.
I disagree. Farmers in particular are already waking up to the fact that they were bamboozled.
But the other part of all of this is that those who know that these policies are toxic but don't speak out need to be held accountable. A recession makes their finding their own courage, a little easier. You don't think free trade republicans don't realize that these trade wars are bad? You don't think deficit hawks aren't alarmed at Trump's adding on $2.5 trillion to the debt during a bull economy? You don't think the libertarian types aren't sickened by Trump's bailouts to farmers and manufacturers?
Is this really how you feel? So what's the solution for this if Trumpers will believe whatever they want to believe? How do you reason with people so intellectually lazy and brainwashed?
Except, most credible economists and major banks are (a) forecasting a recession beginning next year and (b) blaming it on Trump's interference.
Experts and major banks are forecasting a recession based off Trump's toxic policies.
But your last point conflicts with an earlier point. According to you, Trump supporters will believe whatever the **** they want to believe, regardless of "reality." Make up your mind. Are Trump supporters mere consumers of whatever crap they watch on Fox News or are they influenced by facts and reality?
And once again, the target isn't necessarily just Trump supporters, it's those who support Trump's policies yet know better.
Hahahaha, feel pain you idiots! SUFFER for your audacity!
Lmfao. What a bunch of ********.
I'm sure Fox News will try and do that. But most Americans will blame the party in power and Trump in particular.
Yet another example of what I'm talking about. We live in a nation of people who refuse to take accountability for their own actions/inactions.
Auto plant closes. Yet...
#1 Still drives a vehicle with awful gas mileage.
#2 Doesn't stick with retraining. School isn't supposed to be easy.
#3 Refuses to move. Because, if the past 200 years has proven anything, if you don't like your economic situation, the best thing to do is sit on your *** and wait for nanny president to give you a handout. My grandparents (non-mormons) moved from the bay area to Tooele in the 1960s because their jobs evaporated from Vallejo and were moved to the army depot. Think they didn't miss the bay area? But they moved because of economics. The Irish, Italian, hell today's South Americans, think they don't miss their homelands? But they do so because they do what they have to do to make ends meet.
These people need to be held accountable. Get off your lazy asses and get to a state that is in need of your services. Don't have the skills? Get them. It might take some work. Hell, your life might not amount to much. But your kids might benefit. That's been economics for 200+ years. These people had no sympathy for yesterday's blacks or today's hispanics. Yet now suddenly that they're having a hard time the world economy is supposed to stop for them?
So my main problem with this line of thinking is that it won't just be those who brought Trump upon us who will be "held accountable" for his actions. And of course those who have their hands on the levers of power will be just fine regardless.
I also don't think that Trump supporters or even most Republicans are going to somehow see the light and error of their ways. They've shown themselves to be totally capable of living in an alternate reality for the past few years, and I don't see any reason that would change.
Dire electoral consequences are the only thing I believe that could make the GOP see the error of their ways, and even then it'll take multiple election cycles of utter defeat.
Short term pain is well the worth long term gain. If it rids us of agent orange, provides the dire consequences the GOP Needs to reform, and finally wakes the apathetic and poorly informed electorate, then bring on the recession! Ask yourself, how many people do you know claimed that there wasn’t any difference between the two parties and either sat out 2016 or voted 3rd party? Some were on this very website making the case. Thankfully, most have changed their tune after 4 years and of craziness on twitter, nonstop corruption, concentration camps at the border, treating our allies like dirt while kissing up to dictators, crony capitalism, and racism.
Elections have consequences
Nothing will change my opinion about something that is immoral, inequitable, and creates divisiveness and separation in our society. Who the f cares about how well the economy is doing if it's only benefiting a very small segment of the population. That's the classic description of oligarchy. If you are comfortable and feel no pain, it is immoral for you not to care about the millions of others out there who do. And the people who run the country are the ones who are comfortable and feel no pain, and the behavior of the majority of them is immoral and unacceptable. They are supposed to represent all of us, not just those who put millions of dollars in their campaign funds and whose distribution is hidden from us.
Hahahaha. I love this place.
Good lord this man is a moron.