The official: Rudy isn't max money.
- Thread starter Shad
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LoPo
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If Gobert got us a good wing via trade, and then we signed a guy like Montrez Harrell, I dont believe we drop off that much. It's an overreaction to say losing Gobert means a rebuild.
If anything, trading Gobert retools for the long haul. The Lakers, Clippers, and Rockets are set for a few years and we need to be ready for the next wave with Memphis and Dallas.
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LogGrad98
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You hit the nail on the head. No strategy. Quin keeps pounding the square peg into that round hole. He doesn't adapt well to what the other team is doing on a strategic level. Or if he has the plans he doesn't get his team to follow through. I think he might just be too much of a nice guy. For all us joking about how tough he looks, generally speaking the way a team plays is dictated by the coach, and his team doesn't play hard.
Sloan was tough, so his teams were tough. Corbin was clueless, and his teams often played that way. Pop is smart and driven, his teams play smart and driven.
Quin's team is soft and doesn't adapt. What does that say about Quin?
LogGrad98
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Conley.
If we trade Gobert for a good wing we don't magically have cap space.
Thee Jazz Fan
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Beer
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Randolph and Gasol are and were 100% different from Rudy in every single way.
mellow
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I assumed he would be walking away rather than traded. I agree with you if the Jazz are going to lose him a trade could be better than nothing.
And I see your point about rebuilding vs retooling, maybe that is a matter of semantics. I tend to think it is rebuilding if you are trading an all-star, two time defensive player of the year and going a whole new direction with your offense and defensive schemes. Especially if you consider how many other players the Jazz would likely have to dump to fit into the new mix. Maybe they pull it together in quickly and the Jazz still competes for 4-8 in the west the next season, maybe it takes two seasons.
JimLes
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And?
Look, I get that people are upset that he's not Anthony Davis. Hell, even I would (grudgingly) countenance trading Rudy for AD straight up. I just don't see a scenario where the Lakers would do that.
Rudy Gobert is a two-time DPOY, an All-Star and a two time All-NBA player. He is by any measurement and standard a top 20 player in the league. Some of the advanced numbers have even suggested top-10 in the past. Whatever his flaws may be, should we not try and build around our(and his) strengths? All-NBA players don't grow on trees. People here(not specifically you) are advocating trading him. What return can we get, considering that we're a team based in Salt Lake City players aren't exactly dying to play for? Can we get another All-NBA player? Or a surefire future one?
The really ridiculous thing about this season is that a year ago, we had a team that was elite defensively and deeply flawed offensively. We also had two players who were supposed to be our cornerstones and who were supposed to become All-Stars(which they did), aged 26 and 22. We were obviously going to do something about the offense in the summer, but holy mother of everything, did anyone envision things going down the way they did?
We completely blew up our defense, which is nowhere near elite now, while not become anything close to an elite offensive team. Worse yet, and I think this is probably the best way to sum up our season, we have spent 6 months trying to make things easier for everyone but Rudy and Donovan.
Of course Rudy is grumpy and struggling. Of course Donovan is grumpy and struggling. Our calamity of a front office(and coach) have spent all season trying to fix Mike Conley. A 32-year old, over the hill, one dimensional, undersized PG who never wanted to come here in the first place. As if he's the key to our future success and a player to build around. While we continually ignore the needs of the two players we are supposed to be building around.
Donovan is 6'1. He simply shouldn't be playing alongside another player that height, especially when said player is also 30 pounds lighter. That's just the reality of the modern game. Neither of them can consistently stay ahead of bigger, faster guards. The Rockets main 3-guard rotation, as an example, has players at 6'3, 6'3, and 6'5. How is this playing to our strengths? If we have a 6'1 explosive guard who may be our very own Dwyane Wade, why not match him in the backcourt with a bigger, stronger guard? I can't imagine that there were no players in the whole league who can shoot and defend just a little bit that we couldn't have gotten. Rudy's a great screen setter(best in the league according to metrics) and we found out last year that he can get 4-5 dunks a game with little effort. He has not been "figured out" or whatever people want to believe. We had not gotten players this summer to play to that strength of ours and his. Babo is a great shooter. Clarkson is instant offense and he can get to the rim in a way no one else on the team can. Conley might even be a better player than he has looked for the Jazz. None of them can set Rudy up or play Pn'R with him, and none of them are a part of any long term plans(either wrong side of 30 or will take bigger money elsewhere). It's like we did everything we could in the past 9 months to make things more difficult for our two best players.
And it's showing no signs of changing. Conley apparently cannot be benched. Heaven knows he can't be traded because who would be that stupid to take him? Rudy is still regularly put out there with 3 or even 4 people who get blown by on the perimeter and then criticised for not having the mental or physical energy to constantly make up for them. Donovan is played with guards whose hands the ball sticks to and then criticised for drifting in an out of games. And our coaching stuff and front office main strategy is to hope that someone Mike Conley will become a great player and it will all work itself out.
TL;DR Ask yourselves which players a neutral observer of our team would assume were our cornerstones and All-Stars. Based on the way they're all being treated.
LoPo
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True.
LoPo
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Hypothetically, let's say we trade Gobert for Jaylen Brown. That's a great trade for both teams. Gobert helps Boston defend guys like Embiid while also protecting the paint against teams like Miami and Milwaukee. They probably don't need Brown as much as they need a big (especially if they bomb out of the playoffs). Brown is the odd man out with Tatum, Walker, Smart and Hayward.
If we can keep Clarkson and add Brown, then our biggest issue is at big. There are a ton of quality bigs who might could be had for the MLE:
Tristan Thompson
Ibaka
Harrell (I doubt it but....)
Gasol
Favors
Baynes
Kaminsky
Plumlee (I love this fit)
Biyombo
Meyers Leonard
Add one of the guys above to put with Bradley and some work horse guy like Morgan. Our team dynamic changes, but we are better built for what playoff basketball requires.