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The Official: Swallow your pride front office and trade Conley for Love

SCS said:
He was literally playing at an all star level just last season.

You obviously don't get the point so I'm not going to go in circles.
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on a horrific team. Who else was going to put good numbers for that garbage team? Even Melo puts up “allstar numbers” on garbage teams.
 
latin jazz said:
The thing with Rubio is that Conley's career low numbers are similar to Rubio's highs. Rubio is a decent player but he put a pretty low ceiling on our team (more obvious in the playoffs, which is what matters).
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What’s Conley’s ceiling? Because he looks like he’s lost a step or two of quickness and his shot has been consistently bad this entire year. It’s been his most consistent feature, his Trey Burke shooting.
 
SCS said:
Again you're not reading my post. I said that he has played at an all star level in the PAST.

Winning a championship is all about giving yourself the best odds possible.

Let's say you need a player who can give you 15 minutes a night in a big playoff series. Which option gives you the better chance of winning.... a player who *CAN* play at an all star level or a player who cant? It's a pretty simple answer.

If we are legitimately trying to contend we don't trade Conley for bench pieces. Doesn't matter how bad he's playing. Lowering your potential ceiling is not the way to a chip.

Now if we can actually get a better player like CP3, that's a different story.
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you know what doesn’t win championships? Paying a guy $30+ million per year for the production that can be provided by Mudiay earning the league minimum.
 
Booo f'ing hoo.

This place has become insufferable with all this crying this season. It started with Mudiay and Exum crying and now it's Conley. Conley didn't even play that bad last night. I mean Royce got absolutely slaughtered for the 3rd time in the last week and a half(Ingram, Gordon, DeRozen), Gobert left 9 points off the board, Niang was absolutely worthless, and Ingles isn't playing up to par. Not a word.

Funny thing is, Conley had a Mudiay type game.
 
Our team needs better play behind Gobert and more depth that can play defense at SF/PF.

Giving quality assets for Conley was a terrible decision from the start. We need a Crowder type personality and player so badly.

I think our FO has too much pride to trade Conley midseason. However, the right deal could put us over the top. We've shown to be a really, really good team without him so just imagine if he got us quality depth in return.

Still don't think Love is that guy though.

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The Thriller said:
What’s Conley’s ceiling? Because he looks like he’s lost a step or two of quickness and his shot has been consistently bad this entire year. It’s been his most consistent feature, his Trey Burke shooting.
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At this point? Maybe low 40% and 36% from 3s. If he can keep defenses honest, it's a big plus for our offense, especially if he can shoot off the bounce. But yeah, he is been inconsistent as hell. The thing with Rubio is that he was left open by design, which ruined our whole spacing/offense. Even then, he would miss badly. At least with Conley he has to be defended.

That's a bit of the issue with Mudiay in the playoffs. His 3fg% is a bit misleading. He is left wide open and oftentimes he hesitates in taking the 3. He usually drives to his spot to hit a pull up mid ranger: teams will probably scheme against that and take it away.
 
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So what did he do that was so detrimental to the team yesterday? Was it him that allowed both Houston and SA shoot lights out? Was it him in the fourth that ballooned the lead to 11 after it was down to 4 with him in? Was it him that turned the ball over by dribbling off their feet or throwing a terrible pass after trying to make a run? Was it him who had two terrible fouls at the end if the half?

I don't think it was. I think these things cost us the game but you all are blaming Conley. So what did he do to lose us this game? Why are you only on his case?
 
LoPo said:
Our team needs better play behind Gobert and more depth that can play defense at SF/PF.

Giving quality assets for Conley was a terrible decision from the start. We need a Crowder type personality and player so badly.

I think our FO has too much pride to trade Conley midseason. However, the right deal could put us over the top. We've shown to be a really, really good team without him so just imagine if he got us quality depth in return.

Still don't think Love is that guy though.

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I'm with you, I think trading for Conley was a mistake from the beginning. I don't think the Jazz will make any changes and I'm not sure Love is the guy either, but I would respect the Jazz for making that kind of move. I think getting Love would be risky and I'm no "capologist" but I think his contract may not be as toxic as some think. With the cap going up every year his salary may not look so bad in a year or two. If Love is on the team, I think we can go into the cap to sign our own guys anyway, so I don't think it should effect our ability to keep Gobert and Mitchell. At worst we are looking to dump the expensive dead weight of an old, overpaid, oft injured, player, just like we are now. Some significant differences that I see between Love and Conley are that Love has been a multi year all star, he's won a championship, hes been on multiple teams, and hes been consistent with his rebounding and shooting. I think he's obtainable and he fills a good role with the Jazz.
 
Mongoose said:
I'm with you, I think trading for Conley was a mistake from the beginning. I don't think the Jazz will make any changes and I'm not sure Love is the guy either, but I would respect the Jazz for making that kind of move. I think getting Love would be risky and I'm no "capologist" but I think his contract may not be as toxic as some think. With the cap going up every year his salary may not look so bad in a year or two. If Love is on the team, I think we can go into the cap to sign our own guys anyway, so I don't think it should effect our ability to keep Gobert and Mitchell. At worst we are looking to dump the expensive dead weight of an old, overpaid, oft injured, player, just like we are now. Some significant differences that I see between Love and Conley are that Love has been a multi year all star, he's won a championship, hes been on multiple teams, and hes been consistent with his rebounding and shooting. I think he's obtainable and he fills a good role with the Jazz.
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Good post. Love makes us better so really hard to argue with that. I hate the contract, but who knows, he might get us over the hump. For as much as we post up Bojan off of switches, I would imagine we could do the same with Love but even better. I worry about small lineups against us, but we could play Love at C the 12 minutes or so that Gobert sits. Stagger them.

I'm not a big fan of it, but I could be convinced.

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SCS said:
Will the best version of Mike Conley ever show up? I don't know. But ya gotta risk it for the biscuit. You don't win it all being conservative.
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The path you are suggesting IS the conservative path. The risky move would be to move on from Conley (this is why there is only a small chance they will do it and it would be unexpected).
 
Love is not the answer. CP3 is not the answer. Westbrook is not the answer. Their contracts are so bad that I would not want them even if Jazz also got a 1st round pick for taking them.
 
latin jazz said:
At this point? Maybe low 40% and 36% from 3s. If he can keep defenses honest, it's a big plus for our offense, especially if he can shoot off the bounce. But yeah, he is been inconsistent as hell. The thing with Rubio is that he was left open by design, which ruined our whole spacing/offense. Even then, he would miss badly. At least with Conley he has to be defended.

That's a bit of the issue with Mudiay in the playoffs. His 3fg% is a bit misleading. He is left wide open and oftentimes he hesitates in taking the 3. He usually drives to his spot to hit a pull up mid ranger: teams will probably scheme against that and take it away.
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Our 3 point shooting was terrible last night. I know the mentality is to keep chucking. But common sense says to bring it in when the outside shot isn't dropping. We might've won last night had Mudiay played and knocked down a few of his midrange jumpers. I'll take Mudiay's near 50 percent FG shooting over Conley's 30 percent 3 pt shooting.

Stat we never talk about: On nights our 3 point shooting is abysmal, we give the other team fast break opportunities. This prevents us from setting up our half court defense. Both San Antonio and Houston beat us in fast break opportunities. I'm sure even when they didn't score in the fast break, there were sizeable possessions where matchups were screwed up and both our opponents took advantage. I remember Bojan a few times isolated against Gordon. That's easy money right there.
 
Eminence said:
Love talk needs to stop, as poor as Conley has played here in Utah, he's played even worse in Cleveland.
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How so? By being injured? His minutes have gone down and his numbers have a little as well, but his percentages are pretty much the same. I bet his per is pretty much identical.
 
The Thriller said:
Our 3 point shooting was terrible last night. I know the mentality is to keep chucking. But common sense says to bring it in when the outside shot isn't dropping. We might've won last night had Mudiay played and knocked down a few of his midrange jumpers. I'll take Mudiay's near 50 percent FG shooting over Conley's 30 percent 3 pt shooting.

Stat we never talk about: On nights our 3 point shooting is abysmal, we give the other team fast break opportunities. This prevents us from setting up our half court defense. Both San Antonio and Houston beat us in fast break opportunities. I'm sure even when they didn't score in the fast break, there were sizeable possessions where matchups were screwed up and both our opponents took advantage. I remember Bojan a few times isolated against Gordon. That's easy money right there.
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Yeah, transition defense after missed 3s negates our half court defense. I get the sense last year we were better at running back on defense (or using the Euro foul more frequently to stop the fast break). Don't have the numbers on hand.
 
LoPo said:
Good post. Love makes us better so really hard to argue with that. I hate the contract, but who knows, he might get us over the hump. For as much as we post up Bojan off of switches, I would imagine we could do the same with Love but even better. I worry about small lineups against us, but we could play Love at C the 12 minutes or so that Gobert sits. Stagger them.

I'm not a big fan of it, but I could be convinced.

Sent from my VS995 using JazzFanz mobile app
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God, I cant believe I'm making all these arguments for Love. I'm not a proponent of this, but I just think the jazz are in a corner and hes somebody that does make some sense to me. I mean you could even talk yourself into justifying his money if your paying him 7-10M to be a backup center and 10-15 to start at PF combined. I know it doesn't work like that, but we've done the mental masturbation before with Favors. Love is a good passer at his position as well.
 
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