The optimal lineup is so clear

[Getting Traded]

"Think before he passes" Rubio is pretty damn good, or at least is competent running the floor. The trouble is I've never seen a player try to force as many bad passes as him. He really should be benched for some of the passes he throws.

I'm really puzzled by this. He has so much experience and he makes so many ill-advised passes, bad decision passes, passes that high school players would be subbed in for. I don't get it.

 

[nateboz]

Tell that to the Spurs who had Ginobili on the bench to start a lot of games while they won rings.

The 6th man is very important. Having a starting lineup that works is probably more important. The Spurs needed Mano to lead the bench. The Jazz have been tinkering with Hood this year with success.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

 

[gregbroncs]

Jazz are so much better when injuries have forced them to space the floor. I've been so tired of watching Gobert/Favors trip over each other inside. Or reducing Rudy to a spectator on offense. I realize that's been temporarily resolved (no credit to Quin).

And gawd, for all his hype, Rubio is a truly horrible passer at times. He throws the ball at the feet of the bigs inside, or lofts cross court passes that are intercepted and go the other way for fast break buckets by the opposing team.

Quin, when Rudy and Donovan return PLEASE recognize your attempt at appeasing veterans is foolish and truly Corbin-like. This should be the starting lineup:

PG - Mitchell
SG - Hood
SF - Ingles
PF - Jerebko
C - Gobert

I'm simply astounded at how well Jerebko plays when he's given minutes. And why he's then benched for games on end. Favs/Gobert should NEVER see the floor together. And even Johnson at SF or Burks at SG would be ok. I'm not saying this is the line-up of the future. I still believe Utah should upgrade at starting PF and perhaps even SF next year (Ingles can back up 1-3).

If I were a conspiracy theorist, I'd have to believe the Jazz are showcasing players for possible trades. But no, I believe the Jazz are just loyal. They traded for Rubio, so DL/Quin are giving him 2 years to "make it work." And Favs has been a good soldier. Have to give him ~30 minutes in his contract year.

I still maintain your lineup works far better with Favors than Gobert. Gobert does not open up the paint for Mitchell, Ingles and Hood to be aggressive like Favors does.

 

[gregbroncs]

Jazz are so much better when injuries have forced them to space the floor. I've been so tired of watching Gobert/Favors trip over each other inside. Or reducing Rudy to a spectator on offense. I realize that's been temporarily resolved (no credit to Quin).

And gawd, for all his hype, Rubio is a truly horrible passer at times. He throws the ball at the feet of the bigs inside, or lofts cross court passes that are intercepted and go the other way for fast break buckets by the opposing team.

Quin, when Rudy and Donovan return PLEASE recognize your attempt at appeasing veterans is foolish and truly Corbin-like. This should be the starting lineup:

PG - Mitchell
SG - Hood
SF - Ingles
PF - Jerebko
C - Gobert

I'm simply astounded at how well Jerebko plays when he's given minutes. And why he's then benched for games on end. Favs/Gobert should NEVER see the floor together. And even Johnson at SF or Burks at SG would be ok. I'm not saying this is the line-up of the future. I still believe Utah should upgrade at starting PF and perhaps even SF next year (Ingles can back up 1-3).

If I were a conspiracy theorist, I'd have to believe the Jazz are showcasing players for possible trades. But no, I believe the Jazz are just loyal. They traded for Rubio, so DL/Quin are giving him 2 years to "make it work." And Favs has been a good soldier. Have to give him ~30 minutes in his contract year.

I still maintain your lineup works far better with Favors than Gobert. Gobert does not open up the paint for Mitchell, Ingles and Hood to be aggressive like Favors does.

Ummm, no. Have you watched when the Jazz play Rubio, Favors and Gobert together? Jazz may be attempting a lot of 3's...sometimes they aren't always good shots. And the interior game needs to be a LOT better.
There's a reason the Jazz have a losing record and it's not all about injuries.

Actually the injury to Gobert has enabled the team to be within shouting distance of .500. If he hadn't gotten hurt we'd be a .300 team. I agree that Rubio and Gobert should never be on the floor together. Favors has little to do with that particular problem.

 

[freakazoid]

For those people who place too much weight on a handful of games, the spurs have been losing games since Kawhi came back. They should trade him away, because evidence shows they are better this year without him.

 

[freakazoid]

I still maintain your lineup works far better with Favors than Gobert. Gobert does not open up the paint for Mitchell, Ingles and Hood to be aggressive like Favors does.

I don't want to dig up posts from 2 years ago, but there were a lot of takes about Rudy then that looked pretty silly by the next year. Utah has had a problem getting the team to jell with a bunch of new players, and especially a starting lineup with 3 guys who can't spread the floor. However, it would be a huge mistake to start believing the anti-Gobert narrative that made the rounds 2 years ago. Utah needs some roster changes, but Rudy isn't one of them.

 

[NUMBERICA]

I still maintain your lineup works far better with Favors than Gobert. Gobert does not open up the paint for Mitchell, Ingles and Hood to be aggressive like Favors does.

And Favors is a complete waste of time, and opposing offenses don't respect Favors defensively and they're right, so...

 

[NUMBERICA]

Freakazoid throwing straight fire.

 

[Jack Strop]

I still maintain your lineup works far better with Favors than Gobert. Gobert does not open up the paint for Mitchell, Ingles and Hood to be aggressive like Favors does.

I think you're forgetting the historic year Rudy had last season, defensively AND offensively. Gobert and Favs only averaged 11 mins together WHEN Favors played (only 50 regular season games). The lineup was essentially Gobert, Johnson, Hayward, Hill and either Ingles (or Hood when healthy). That's 4 shooters and a P&R/lob/put-back big. And Utah had PG's who could get the ball to Rudy at shoulder level or above, not thrown at his knees and ankles. That's one of my biggest frustrations with Rubio. When he forces the ball inside, it's usually a bounce pass that ricochets off legs, whether that's a defender or the intended recipient.

I agree Favs is better offensively, but he's nowhere near the defender that Gobert is. Besides, it's very doubtful he'll return. Not only is he not a good fit next to Rudy as a starter, but there just isn't the money to keep him...unless the Jazz let Hood and Exum leave.

 

[Jack Strop]

Are LoPo and Jack Strop the same person?

Nope, I'm not LoPo's alt. Go back to my first post. I'm actually a Zags fan and cheered for the Sonics before that ******* owner moved the team. Always liked the Jazz, too. I decided to finally sign up when the Jazz drafted NWG. Thought he'd be a very good backup PG for Utah, but I guess I'm not very good at evaluating talent.

 

[Thee Jazz Fan]

Jazz are so much better when injuries have forced them to space the floor. I've been so tired of watching Gobert/Favors trip over each other inside. Or reducing Rudy to a spectator on offense. I realize that's been temporarily resolved (no credit to Quin).

And gawd, for all his hype, Rubio is a truly horrible passer at times. He throws the ball at the feet of the bigs inside, or lofts cross court passes that are intercepted and go the other way for fast break buckets by the opposing team.

Quin, when Rudy and Donovan return PLEASE recognize your attempt at appeasing veterans is foolish and truly Corbin-like. This should be the starting lineup:

PG - Mitchell
SG - Hood
SF - Ingles
PF - Jerebko
C - Gobert

I'm simply astounded at how well Jerebko plays when he's given minutes. And why he's then benched for games on end. Favs/Gobert should NEVER see the floor together. And even Johnson at SF or Burks at SG would be ok. I'm not saying this is the line-up of the future. I still believe Utah should upgrade at starting PF and perhaps even SF next year (Ingles can back up 1-3).

If I were a conspiracy theorist, I'd have to believe the Jazz are showcasing players for possible trades. But no, I believe the Jazz are just loyal. They traded for Rubio, so DL/Quin are giving him 2 years to "make it work." And Favs has been a good soldier. Have to give him ~30 minutes in his contract year.

Hasn't our best lineup had Favors at center so far?

 

[Thee Jazz Fan]

Nope, I'm not LoPo's alt. Go back to my first post. I'm actually a Zags fan and cheered for the Sonics before that ******* owner moved the team. Always liked the Jazz, too. I decided to finally sign up when the Jazz drafted NWG. Thought he'd be a very good backup PG for Utah, but I guess I'm not very good at evaluating talent.

All that proves is that your *** is a good talker

 

[Thee Jazz Fan]

All that proves is that your *** is a good talker

Your butt

 

[gregbroncs]

I don't want to dig up posts from 2 years ago, but there were a lot of takes about Rudy then that looked pretty silly by the next year. Utah has had a problem getting the team to jell with a bunch of new players, and especially a starting lineup with 3 guys who can't spread the floor. However, it would be a huge mistake to start believing the anti-Gobert narrative that made the rounds 2 years ago. Utah needs some roster changes, but Rudy isn't one of them.

I'm just saying his lineup is completely unproven with Gobert in that lineup instead of Favors. The lineup he posted has worked great with Favors and a lot of people are just assuming that it will work with Gobert. I'm not as sure about that because Favors is a better offensive player than Gobert.

 

[fishonjazz]

I still maintain your lineup works far better with Favors than Gobert. Gobert does not open up the paint for Mitchell, Ingles and Hood to be aggressive like Favors does.

Actually the injury to Gobert has enabled the team to be within shouting distance of .500. If he hadn't gotten hurt we'd be a .300 team. I agree that Rubio and Gobert should never be on the floor together. Favors has little to do with that particular problem.

Dont you think that part of the reason the team was playing so good with gobert out was due to the weakness of our opponents and all the games at vivent during the stretch of games with gobert out?

Also hood missed many of those games as well. Joe Johnson too. So we should just keep the lineups and rotations the same as they were during that hot stretch and not play gobert, hood or jj too right?

 

[Ron Mexico]

According to PER Favors is still our best player this season.

Actually I take that back. Gobert didnt qualify but is ever so slightly higher.

 

[gregbroncs]

Dont you think that part of the reason the team was playing so good with gobert out was due to the weakness of our opponents and all the games at vivent during the stretch of games with gobert out?

Also hood missed many of those games as well. Joe Johnson too. So we should just keep the lineups and rotations the same as they were during that hot stretch and not play gobert, hood or jj too right?

Some of it. But that's being overblown a bit. Favors played against some damn good Centers during that stretch. And they played some of the same teams later with far different results.

That is far from what I'm saying. I'm just expressing skepticism with the put Gobert in Favors' spot during that stretch and it will be even better narrative, that some people are preaching.

A lot of fans here act like Gobert is a god on the court. He's an average at best offensive player and a great defensive player. I think the Favors/Gobert lineup can work in small stretches. But I think Favors should not be getting >25 MPG when Gobert is back because Favors is still one of our 4-5 best players. Honestly I think Favors is gone, I think that will be a mistake. But if it's a forgone conclusion then they should trade him.

I see Gobert's offense last year as more of an outlier than the real deal. He was playing with very good offensive players who spaced the floor a lot and could create shots in traffic or get the ball to Gobert where he didn't have to do anything with the ball. He doesn't have that this year and his offense looks a lot like 2 years ago.

 

[gregbroncs]

According to PER Favors is still our best player this season. He is the 20th best PER in the NBA right now.

I see him as the most underrated player on this team by the fans of this team. I still think he's as good or better than Rudy. I see Rudy as the most overrated player on the team. He a good player, but the fans here act like he's untouchable and I don't see it that way. I think it's almost impossible to build a championship team in the league now with a player than simply can't shoot. And Gobert simply can't shoot. Not even from 8' away, that is a serious hindrance to any offense and most don't want to see it.

 

[Jazz4ever]

Some of it. But that's being overblown a bit. Favors played against some damn good Centers during that stretch. And they played some of the same teams later with far different results.

That is far from what I'm saying. I'm just expressing skepticism with the put Gobert in Favors' spot during that stretch and it will be even better narrative, that some people are preaching.

A lot of fans here act like Gobert is a god on the court. He's an average at best offensive player and a great defensive player. I think the Favors/Gobert lineup can work in small stretches. But I think Favors should not be getting <25 MPG when Gobert is back because Favors is still one of our 4-5 best players. Honestly I think Favors is gone, I think that will be a mistake. But if it's a forgone conclusion then they should trade him.

I see Gobert's offense last year as more of an outlier than the real deal. He was playing with very good offensive players who spaced the floor a lot and could create shots in traffic or get the ball to Gobert where he didn't have to do anything with the ball. He doesn't have that this year and his offense looks a lot like 2 years ago.

Per36 minutes his scoring is only down from 14.9 ppg to 13.9. Not exactly night and day difference here. If you got someone like George Hill back, the floor becomes spaced again and Gobert easily could return to last years numbers. So, as a GM, what is harder? Replacing the best defensive center or finding a PG that can shoot?

 

[Jack Strop]

Some of it. But that's being overblown a bit. Favors played against some damn good Centers during that stretch. And they played some of the same teams later with far different results.

That is far from what I'm saying. I'm just expressing skepticism with the put Gobert in Favors' spot during that stretch and it will be even better narrative, that some people are preaching.

A lot of fans here act like Gobert is a god on the court. He's an average at best offensive player and a great defensive player. I think the Favors/Gobert lineup can work in small stretches. But I think Favors should not be getting <25 MPG when Gobert is back because Favors is still one of our 4-5 best players. Honestly I think Favors is gone, I think that will be a mistake. But if it's a forgone conclusion then they should trade him.

I see Gobert's offense last year as more of an outlier than the real deal. He was playing with very good offensive players who spaced the floor a lot and could create shots in traffic or get the ball to Gobert where he didn't have to do anything with the ball. He doesn't have that this year and his offense looks a lot like 2 years ago.

Agree with you...and that's the whole point. For a team to be successful, they need the right combination of offense AND defense. What makes GS so good? Defense. Why hasn't a team like Denver contended? Elite offense last year, but no defense.

There aren't enough balls to go around for 5 scorers. Jazz last year had Hayward as the primary, Hill as a secondary and players like Ingles, Hood and JJ as role players who could score, but weren't going to take a ton of shots. And then the 5th player was a defensive specialist. Basically no offensive plays drawn up for him, but he still could average double figured on lobs and put-backs and a few P&R's. That's a great, balanced lineup. And when Favors DID play, he was basically the backup 5.

I think if you had put Gobert in Favors' position during the win streak (mostly home games against bad teams), you'd see less offense, but better defense. The net result is the same, just a bit different. Gobert was all-NBA. He's a franchise player. Will he fit on a team that needs him to score 20+? No. But can you imagine him on any team that already has competent shooters at the other four positions?

Favors is a player with a history of non-contact injuries and inconsistent performances. He's no longer the defender he was a few years ago. He's not a player you look to sign and make the centerpiece of the defense, trading away one of the elite defenders in the league. Besides, Derrick has never liked playing the 5. He's stated a few times he considers himself a PF. Problem is, he doesn't have the outside shooting ability to play the modern 4.