The REAL burks v. Rush thread.

[framer]

Honest (as opposed to snarky) question here: regarding the shot charts, does better shooting from the left or right actually signify something about the player's abilities or does it have more to do with the team they were playing for? It just seems like there's not much difference shooting from the right corner as opposed to the left corner.

As far as warm up shooting probably very little, although I know shooters have their favorite spots. I remember that when Stockton dribbled down the court on a break and moved to a certain spot he was going to shoot it 9 times out of 10. That was his spot. I believe it makes a difference in a catch and shoot or shooting off the dribble, especially when you are defended, even lightly. In shooting from the right corner your right hand is facing the baseline and is harder to bother. On the left, a right handed shooter is more exposed to the defense.

 

[Stoked]

Dear Stoked,

we have made teh peace

But, like warriors, we must always be prepared to be good enemies.

I think we manage being friends and enemies well enough.

 

[Stoked]

I'm 100% confident asserting that catch-and-shoot 3pnt shots have been a massive part of Burks' offseason training. Every player like him sees the writing on the wall: you gotta be good at that to stay on the floor.

Billups has called Burks the "corner pimp".... he's got some abilities out there. Needs more consistent minutes and roles.

While I hope that is true I hope that he put even more effort into finishing at the rim and his FT%. For me those two are foremost. Than his shot, D and ball handling.

 

[MoreFeasts]

I refuse to post on that other thread and prefer to let it die the twisted and painful death it deserves. For those who want to discuss, with actual facts and logic, why a healthy Rush should start here is the opening salvo:

If your goal is to spread the floor and make it harder for your opponent to concentrate their defense on either the inside or on the opposite side of the floor are you going with this guy:

Or this guy:

Just for the record, here is Hayward's shot chart.

Notice that both Burks and Hayward are far stronger on the right hand part of the floor and Rush can hit from the left.

If it comes down to Burks working on his three point shooting from the left as opposed to working on his free throws, I want him to spend his time on the free throws. That will help the team more without trying to force him into being a fourth or fifth option starter. I'm not even saying Rush is better than Burks overall. It is pretty obvious that he can hit that left court three which both Hayward and Burks both struggle at. That opens up the court for our bigs and takes pressure off of our rookie point to start the season.

Start all 3.\
Have Rush shoot 3s from behind both elbows,
Have Haywards shoot 3s from the right side
Have Burks shoot 3s from the top and the right corner.


BOOM! Team shoots 47% from 3. Home court in playoffs.

 

[Coach Ellis]

I'd like Rush to prove that he's healthy enough to play really good basketball so that the Jazz can trade him at the deadline for another quality asset. His knee injuries and off-the-court issues concern me enlighten to hope they don't invest too much money in him long-term.

I liked the suggestion that you start Burks, then bring Rush off the bench and move Burks over to point guard. That would be a good way to feature Rush and get Burks good minutes. My biggest problem with that is the fact that I think Gordon Hayward should get some playing time at the 2 and this would limit the minutes that they could do that.

 

[seattlejazzfan]

Framer, will you post those same stats for Burks in the month of February when he was getting consistent minutes and averaging 27 minutes per game? That would be helpful for this discussion because until we see those stats, for all intents and purposes we're comparing apples to oranges.

 

[cctrackstar]

While I admit I have never seen Rush play (or at least not paid attention), from what I'm reading, they are very different players. While Burks is kind of a combo guard, Rush is more of a shooter. I can see them on the floor at the same time with Burks playing the point, especially if they are better at opposite ends of the floor.

 

[Jazz4ever]

While I admit I have never seen Rush play (or at least not paid attention), from what I'm reading, they are very different players. While Burks is kind of a combo guard, Rush is more of a shooter. I can see them on the floor at the same time with Burks playing the point, especially if they are better at opposite ends of the floor.

Yeah that's worth experimenting with I'd say.

 

[franklin]

franklin has been dominating lately. Man.... it makes me miss the days when we all deserved the regular company of vslice, GVC, NUMBERICA, and this more analytically engaged frank.

Call it a last ditch effort to raise the level of discussion before abandoning like all those good minds have. Reading the "yeah, but" drivel and everything's a soap opera that the discussion has devolved into doesn't do it for me.

Those independent thinkers have been replaced with one-sided ideologues (who openly attack posters like Lunatic and JedTiger with impunity from moderation). #Nostalgia

 

[fishonjazz]

Call it a last ditch effort to raise the level of discussion before abandoning like all those good minds have. Reading the "yeah, but" drivel and everything's a soap opera that the discussion has devolved into doesn't do it for me.

Those independent thinkers have been replaced with one-sided ideologues (who openly attack posters like Lunatic and JedTiger with impunity from moderation). #Nostalgia

Poor lunatic wolf...... Every post from him last season was him attacking someone.

 

[Stoked]

Call it a last ditch effort to raise the level of discussion before abandoning like all those good minds have. Reading the "yeah, but" drivel and everything's a soap opera that the discussion has devolved into doesn't do it for me.

Those independent thinkers have been replaced with one-sided ideologues (who openly attack posters like Lunatic and JedTiger with impunity from moderation). #Nostalgia

Good stuff. Keep it coming.

 

[Stoked]

QUestion for any that want to answer it.

What do you think the most effective (team wise, not individual) trio will/would be and why out of Rush/Hayward/Burks, Rush/Hayward Burke, Rush/Burks/Burke or Hayward/Burks/Burke?

 

[fishonjazz]

QUestion for any that want to answer it.

What do you think the most effective (team wise, not individual) trio will/would be and why out of Rush/Hayward/Burks, Rush/Hayward Burke, Rush/Burks/Burke or Hayward/Burks/Burke?

Hayward, burks, burke...... because i think its nice to have a true point guard on the floor and i think that burks and Hayward are both better than rush and are much more versatile.
One thing people tend to forget about burks is how good of an offensive rebounder he is for his size.
I think burks is a better ball handler, finisher, penetrator, passer, and rebounder than rush.... and i think burks should end up the better defender because of his speed, athleticism, and length... Only thing rush will be better than burks at is shooting the 3 ball and i don't think that is enough of a reason to start him over burks.

Oh and burks still has ALOT more potential and upside since he is only 22 years old.

 

[Ben10]

Hayward, burks, burke...... because i think its nice to have a true point guard on the floor and i think that burks and Hayward are both better than rush and are much more versatile.
One thing people tend to forget about burks is how good of an offensive rebounder he is for his size.
I think burks is a better ball handler, finisher, penetrator, passer, and rebounder than rush.... and i think burks should end up the better defender because of his speed, athleticism, and length... Only thing rush will be better than burks at is shooting the 3 ball and i don't think that is enough of a reason to start him over burks.

Oh and burks still has ALOT more potential and upside since he is only 22 years old.

Why is starting important? I agree with every thing you just said fishonjazz, And those are all the reasons I would rather see Burks come of the bench. With Hayward, Burke, Favors, and Kanter all needing the ball on offense why do we need Burks out there also. I would rather have a 5th option like Rush sitting behind the 3 point line and have Burks be a 1st option with the second unit.

Last year I thought it was better when Hayward came of the bench because I got to see him play his game, run the offense be the man instead of just stand around and watch Al, Paul, and Mo do there thing.

Burks strength is having the ball in his hands. That doesn't happen enough if he is a starter. I want to see him play to his strengths, get his confidence up and be the man with the second group then have him close games if he is playing well.

 

[fishonjazz]

Why is starting important? I agree with every thing you just said fishonjazz, And those are all the reasons I would rather see Burks come of the bench. With Hayward, Burke, Favors, and Kanter all needing the ball on offense why do we need Burks out there also. I would rather have a 5th option like Rush sitting behind the 3 point line and have Burks be a 1st option with the second unit.

Last year I thought it was better when Hayward came of the bench because I got to see him play his game, run the offense be the man instead of just stand around and watch Al, Paul, and Mo do there thing.

Burks strength is having the ball in his hands. That doesn't happen enough if he is a starter. I want to see him play to his strengths, get his confidence up and be the man with the second group then have him close games if he is playing well.

Idk why it is important for guys to start, but it is important to a lot of them that they do..... especially if they are better than the player they are backing up.

I mean pierce, joe jonhnson, lopez, all do better with the ball in thier hands so d will should come off the bench and they should start bogans at point so he can spot up for threes and space the floor.

Everyone is saying that burks would be the fifth option with the starters but we don't know that.... maybe burks will end up being the first option go to guy with the starters.

 

[fishonjazz]

Idk why it is important for guys to start, but it is important to a lot of them that they do..... especially if they are better than the player they are backing up.

I mean pierce, joe jonhnson, lopez, all do better with the ball in thier hands so d will should come off the bench and they should start bogans at point so he can spot up for threes and space the floor.

Everyone is saying that burks would be the fifth option with the starters but we don't know that.... maybe burks will end up being the first option go to guy with the starters.

Honestly I'm playing devils advocate a bit here and I can see why it would be good for him to be the 6th man but I have been waiting for the core 4 to start together for years and this is finally my chance to see the starting lineup that I crave.
I don't want rush to **** up my dream come true starting line up.

Check the pic in my sig...... that's what I want on the floor to start the game

 

[gregbroncs]

I don't get all the Rush love. I'll just leave it at that.

And I don't get all the love for Burks.

 

[fishonjazz]

And I don't get all the love for Burks.

You will

 

[gregbroncs]

You will

Oh I see the potential. But I see potential both ways. He could be a really good player who gets it and leads a team and becomes a center point of an offense. I also see a guy who could become a huge chucker that doesn't pass and is a poor defender. Right now for me Burks is almost as unproven as Burke. I think right now Rush is the better player (provided he comes back healthy) and should probably start over Burks. I think Burks has more potential and may very well prove to be a superior player, Maybe even this season.
.
But none of that is enough for all the love he gets on here right now.
.
Oh and I really do want to see that starting lineup. Mostly for the same reason you do. I just won't be upset if it's Rush instead of Burks because it's the other 3 I think are the better players right now.

 

[franklin]

Honestly I'm playing devils advocate a bit here and I can see why it would be good for him to be the 6th man but I have been waiting for the core 4 to start together for years and this is finally my chance to see the starting lineup that I crave.
I don't want rush to **** up my dream come true starting line up.

Check the pic in my sig...... that's what I want on the floor to start the game

The passion is cool. There's plenty Jazz fatigue and we need more of this raw emotion in the fanbase.