What's new
By:

This bill made me curious

♪alt13

♪alt13

Well-Known Member
A proposed bill would eliminate the child tax exemption in Utah and raise $400 million for education. The argument is basically about fairness. Large families benefit from the tax exemption while at the same time their children are dependent on the state for their education. The question was raised "Is there another way to raise the money?"

https://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=750&sid=26954018&title=sunday-edition-eliminating-the-family-child-tax-exemption

I've never bothered to itemize charitable deductions and to be honest I am not even certain what qualifies. I am always puzzled at first when the DI asks if I want a receipt for my old couch, last years kids clothes, or a box of dust covered electronics. As I chuckle and say no I think to myself "what cheap ******* would bother to write this junk off".

What percentage of tithing and other charitable donations can be deducted from Utah state taxes? Is it dollar for dollar, 50%, 10%? If the Utah state tax rate is 5% and 50% of tithing can be written off, then a Mormon that pays their full tithe would pay nothing in state taxes, right?
 
heyhey said:
A proposed bill would eliminate the child tax exemption in Utah and raise $400 million for education. The argument is basically about fairness. Large families benefit from the tax exemption while at the same time their children are dependent on the state for their education. The question was raised "Is there another way to raise the money?"

https://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=750&sid=26954018&title=sunday-edition-eliminating-the-family-child-tax-exemption


I've never bothered to itemize charitable deductions and to be honest I am not even certain what qualifies. I am always puzzled at first when the DI asks if I want a receipt for my old couch, last years kids clothes, or a box of dust covered electronics. As I chuckle and say no I think to myself "what cheap ******* would bother to write this junk off".

What percentage of tithing and other charitable donations can be deducted from Utah state taxes? Is it dollar for dollar, 50%, 10%? If the Utah state tax rate is 5% and 50% of tithing can be written off, then a Mormon that pays their full tithe would pay nothing in state taxes, right?
Click to expand...

If your Federal marginal tax rate in your tax bracket is 39%, and you're clearly above the alternative standard deduction, a tithe-payer will get a Federal benefit of 39 cents less Federal taxes for each dollar of "tithe" that you pay, plus a fractional State benefit which would amount to another ten to twenty cents. You never make money paying tithing.

The state bill you are referring to is the child-hater tax. People who think there are too many kids anyway, and that they are all useless. It's really a self-hating bunch, mostly anti-Mormons, who don't realize that their future social security benefits are going to be paid by these kids, if they go to school and then get good jobs. . . . .
 
babe said:
If your Federal marginal tax rate in your tax bracket is 39%, and you're clearly above the alternative standard deduction, a tithe-payer will get a Federal benefit of 39 cents less Federal taxes for each dollar of "tithe" that you pay, plus a fractional State benefit which would amount to another ten to twenty cents. You never make money paying tithing.
Click to expand...

I was not trying to imply that Mormons make money from paying the tithe. I was only trying to find out to what level the rest of us are subsidizing their tithe.

The state bill you are referring to is the child-hater tax. People who think there are too many kids anyway, and that they are all useless. It's really a self-hating bunch, mostly anti-Mormons, who don't realize that their future social security benefits are going to be paid by these kids, if they go to school and then get good jobs. . . . .

This is the whole point. Utah ranks dead last in per pupil spending. Which has lead to ever increasing class sizes. Also teachers get payed very poorly. Is this something we should change? How is increasing education spending child hating? If we do increase education spending where should the money come from?
 
babe said:
The state bill you are referring to is the child-hater tax. People who think there are too many kids anyway, and that they are all useless. It's really a self-hating bunch, mostly anti-Mormons, who don't realize that their future social security benefits are going to be paid by these kids, if they go to school and then get good jobs. . . . .
Click to expand...

Whoa. Down boy.

I'm Mormon, and I have an issue with the fact that my taxes pay for everyone else's kids to go to state sanctioned day care. Quick question, why is it okay to have kids you can't afford? Especially in this conservative state, where we all want less government...unless I have to do something as a result?

"Their future social security benefits will be paid by these kids..." Wow. That sucks for society. Reality is this: if you plan on living off SS then your plan sucks.
 
green said:
Whoa. Down boy.

I'm Mormon, and I have an issue with the fact that my taxes pay for everyone else's kids to go to state sanctioned day care. Quick question, why is it okay to have kids you can't afford? Especially in this conservative state, where we all want less government...unless I have to do something as a result?

"Their future social security benefits will be paid by these kids..." Wow. That sucks for society. Reality is this: if you plan on living off SS then your plan sucks.
Click to expand...

The problem with liberals is they want the government to collect more taxes for everything, in every imaginable way. There will never be enough money for liberals to take care of everybody.

The problem with socialism in public schools is that public schools don't educate. They condition kids, train kids to obey implicitly, misinform them on the basic realities of life, and turn them into morons who are ostensibly trained to do some little task the same way everybody does it. Common core, the latest fascist/socialist dream, displaces all true education with "information-based" rote drills, removing every last vestige of classical education and producing "worker bees" for corporate service and clueless government honchos.

Education of the classical sort apprises the pupil of a complex world and brings out creative, intelligent cognition and the capacity to solve problems, and a way of living that is not merely "dependent" on government or corporate welfare. An educated human being would be so bored with filling some government post, and would feel so poorly-paid, he'd bust out and start a business of his own. Like me. After years in college getting thoroughly drilled in multiple disciplines, none of which was ever relevant to getting a better job, and years working and living in poverty funded by government grants, I escaped and began to earn a living.

Today I educate my own kids, and pay enough property taxes to pay for several families of ten kids warehoused in the public schools, and consider every cent of that wasted.

We don't need public schools anymore. At least in the K-12 level. We need to spend our educational dollars on internet programs accessible by everyone. School teachers should produce their own online classes instead of driving to a schoolhouse every day, and the state should reimburse them on a per-pupil/user toll, paid directly by parents. Colleges should administer their own entrance exams, and set their bars high. . . . and use more internet and less bricks. Tenure should be abolished. Training for job-specific skills should all be done privately or at least in community-based colleges, which should be financed in part by trade unions and businesses that hire "graduates" from such training coursework.

Charter schools do a better job for the dollar they get. Private schools are a good idea, not just for the elites. We should subsidize them per-pupil on a voucher system, at 60% of the per-pupil rate we've got in "public schools". At that rate, they still get better results.
 
babe said:
The problem with liberals is they want the government to collect more taxes for everything, in every imaginable way. There will never be enough money for liberals to take care of everybody.

The problem with socialism in public schools is that public schools don't educate. They condition kids, train kids to obey implicitly, misinform them on the basic realities of life, and turn them into morons who are ostensibly trained to do some little task the same way everybody does it. Common core, the latest fascist/socialist dream, displaces all true education with "information-based" rote drills, removing every last vestige of classical education and producing "worker bees" for corporate service and clueless government honchos.

Education of the classical sort apprises the pupil of a complex world and brings out creative, intelligent cognition and the capacity to solve problems, and a way of living that is not merely "dependent" on government or corporate welfare. An educated human being would be so bored with filling some government post, and would feel so poorly-paid, he'd bust out and start a business of his own. Like me. After years in college getting thoroughly drilled in multiple disciplines, none of which was ever relevant to getting a better job, and years working and living in poverty funded by government grants, I escaped and began to earn a living.

Today I educate my own kids, and pay enough property taxes to pay for several families of ten kids warehoused in the public schools, and consider every cent of that wasted.

We don't need public schools anymore. At least in the K-12 level. We need to spend our educational dollars on internet programs accessible by everyone. School teachers should produce their own online classes instead of driving to a schoolhouse every day, and the state should reimburse them on a per-pupil/user toll, paid directly by parents. Colleges should administer their own entrance exams, and set their bars high. . . . and use more internet and less bricks. Tenure should be abolished. Training for job-specific skills should all be done privately or at least in community-based colleges, which should be financed in part by trade unions and businesses that hire "graduates" from such training coursework.

Charter schools do a better job for the dollar they get. Private schools are a good idea, not just for the elites. We should subsidize them per-pupil on a voucher system, at 60% of the per-pupil rate we've got in "public schools". At that rate, they still get better results.
Click to expand...

Yes to all of this. We don't send our kids to public schools to learn. They suck at that. We send our kids to public schools for the social aspect, so they can hang out with friends. When they come home, we do homework, teaching, etc with them. Their attendance sucks at school, well, because the schools suck at teaching them.

I'd love an internet schooling curriculum. The problem is, where do parents get all this "free" babysitting from?
 
p.s. it's amazing how much more a kid can learn in 2 hours at home vs 6 at school. Shocking, really.
 
bordelais7 said:
So, without public education, illiteracy rates today would be 20%? Am I reading that correctly? I was home schooled, so I can't be sure.




I wasn't really home schooled, but I thought it made my point more amusing.
Click to expand...

There's no way to know with certainty. However, with no public education, who teaches the children of that bottom 20% to read?
 
Perhaps more people may be able to read, but it sure as hell seems as more and more people cannot comprehend what they are reading. Personally, I think that's a major problem.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page
Back
Top