This made me kinda sad today...

[Red]

You pretty much just said MAGA is akin to the rise of Nazi Germany.

This is why there is such a huge disconnect. Its insulting. The two are not even close. Why does the arguement against MAGA have to go to extreme levels to make the point seem valid? You know, you could make a compelling point even if it was rooted in more of a factually based reality.

The truth is MAGA stands for many different things for different people. Some may just see it as symbol for needing better economic conditions. In fact, I would argue that thats exactly what it stands for, for most people. Some may celebrate it as and see it with racist views associated. But I think its much fewer than you think.

Do you really think that someone how this country after everything thing it has seen and done, with all the knowledge it has gained, lesson's learned, etc.. that in just a few short years it would let its self become just like Nazi Germany? We still have world war 2 vets alive. There families are alive and have been influenced by the events. This same country gave so much help fighting that war. Alot of those same people are the same people the left accuses of being Nazi's.

Saying we need people to come into the country legally is not the same as gas the Jews and get them out of the country. Its just not.

Ya, you are supposed to push back and keep things in check. Keep things in balance. But the left is pushing back, pushing there friend over the table, out the window, into the street, in front of the car, then off the cliff. Then wonders why people are in the defensive.

Hmm. Well, I respect what your saying here, and no, I don't expect that, lurking around the corner, some horrors as bad as those of Hitler's Germany will inevitably unfold. No, I do indeed think the "American experience" and the strength of our democracy and values would prevent such a thing. Or at least be to our advantage in preventing it.

But I do see MAGA as esssentially an "eruption" of the same impulse of hyper nationalism that has plagued the world on several occasions for the past 100 years. Bear in mind, I believe I recognized Trump as a demagogue right from the very beginning of his campaign. I saw him identify scapegoats in his campaign speeches, a classic demagogue move. And I believe there was a large segment of the American population who were angry and concerned in the face of intense demographic social change, and cultural change in the form of our culture wars. And Trump's flag waving, he wrapped the flag around himself in one classic moment, are all, to me, remindful of episodes I am familiar with from studying Western history of the past 100 years. A demagogue using hyper nationalistic sentiments to gain and solidify allegiance.

And understand, I have never, ever, been a fan of the flag waving "America, love it or leave it" hyper or uber nationalism that I see in America today. I learned that slogan "America, love it or leave it" in the Vietnam era. That is when I became both politicized and, at least in that era, radicalized. Combine that with years in college studying Western history since 1789, and you've got some of the reasons I became who I am and believe what I believe and why all kinds of red flags appeared in my consciousness when Trump arrived on the scene.

And of course I recognize MAGA is not just about nationalism to its proponents, and to Trump's followers . Really, what I was doing was trying to distill my own thoughts, and how I view MAGA, in a short, succinct way. I'm not exactly one for "short and succinct", lol. It was a generalization, and that's all. But one that is essential to how I see what is happening.

I hope this at least clarifies somewhat where I am coming from, and why.

You see, Trump's followers do not recognize him as a demagogue using nationalistic sentiments to gain and maintain allegiance, and identifying scapegoats to provide targets for anger and anxiety, etc., just as nationalistic leaders are doing elsewhere in the West at this time in our history, and, to my point, have done in the past. I expect you to see me as mistaken and overreacting. But this is one reason why it is so difficult for the divisive opinions in our society to communicate with each other. You simply do not see Trump in the same context as I see him.

But, it's all good. We're going through a crisis of sorts in our history at this moment. I do not know how it will end. But I recognize a nationalistic demagogue when I see one. My study of Western history makes it impossible for me not to recognize this. And, yes, it is the bottom line source of my concerns.

 

[One Brow]

Fox news leans right. Yes. And pretty much every other big news corporation leans left. Thats just the way it is.

MSNBC leans left. CNN leans sensationalist, but not politically left nor right. NPR is also neither left nor right. That's just the way it is.

 

[framer]

I don't read their articles. And I wasn't expecting you to have screenshots. I expect that there are people out there watching out for these things (since so many cry about fake news).

I appreciate the more nuanced complaint about their tone. And I understand. CNN is not exactly a top quality news organization. But I doubt they ninja edit anything the way you implied originally.

Do they change the article significantly after more information is found without noting prior accusations? Of course they do. They are a 24 hour TV news station. In any big story, they are going to get many details significantly wrong. This happens every time. Their web reporting is a function of their TV reporting.

Now, do they go back to these stories and delineate out the inaccuracies from the real facts? Not usually. They would make the argument that it clutters the now known facts. Most of the time, as with a shooting, it doesn't matter that people thought there might have been multiple shooters when we have now proven there was only one. But it DOES make a difference when you publish an unsubstantiated claim off of Twitter as a valid accusation of sexual assault against a Supreme Court nominee and find out later that it is completely false. You need to OWN that mistake instead of just "letting the facts catch up to the story."

I mean adding and removing pieces of a story is just a side product of the fact that they run with crap they read on Twitter (or Buzzfeed) as news. If you double sourced you stories, there wouldn't be a problem. Set your journalistic sights higher than one might expect from someone like "The Thriller."

 

[Red]

You pretty much just said MAGA is akin to the rise of Nazi Germany.

This is why there is such a huge disconnect. Its insulting. The two are not even close. Why does the arguement against MAGA have to go to extreme levels to make the point seem valid? You know, you could make a compelling point even if it was rooted in more of a factually based reality.

The truth is MAGA stands for many different things for different people. Some may just see it as symbol for needing better economic conditions. In fact, I would argue that thats exactly what it stands for, for most people. Some may celebrate it as and see it with racist views associated. But I think its much fewer than you think.

Do you really think that someone how this country after everything thing it has seen and done, with all the knowledge it has gained, lesson's learned, etc.. that in just a few short years it would let its self become just like Nazi Germany? We still have world war 2 vets alive. There families are alive and have been influenced by the events. This same country gave so much help fighting that war. Alot of those same people are the same people the left accuses of being Nazi's.

Saying we need people to come into the country legally is not the same as gas the Jews and get them out of the country. Its just not.

Ya, you are supposed to push back and keep things in check. Keep things in balance. But the left is pushing back, pushing there friend over the table, out the window, into the street, in front of the car, then off the cliff. Then wonders why people are in the defensive.

Some additional food for thought. I'm not one who usually takes the position that "if the founding fathers believed this or that, then this or that is how we must think as well". But, nonetheless, here Jefferey Rosen argues that "America is living James Madison's nightmare", which included the appearance of demagogues, due to a system of choosing leaders that relies on emotion, not reason. Of course this tendency did not start with Trump, but it is just my opinion that he represents the most classic demagogue to appear here, and in my lifetime:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/10/james-madison-mob-rule/568351/

 

[Hotdog]

MSNBC leans left. CNN leans sensationalist, but not politically left nor right. NPR is also neither left nor right. That's just the way it is.

Thats just not true.

Do you know why you guys continually deny this? Its because then in a round about way you know you would be admitting unfair reach of the left and its capabilities of brainwashing so many people who spend a lot of time watching tv and not working. Its not even a conspiracy either. Its a self feeding monster. These "news" organizations and tv shows dominate the landscape because they are giving what their audience wants. This is why radio is dominated by Republicans. Where working types can listen to what they want to.

Sounds like a great American dream doesnt it? Sit home, do nothing, then vote to take good and services from the productive people. While also claiming how unfair, racist, and mean everyone is. All because the tube instructed you to. Then go out rioting and protesting because you have nothing else better to do.

Do you ever ask yourself why you dont see Republican types rioting and protesting unless its in socialist countries?

 

[Harambe]

Leaves this here

 

[One Brow]

Thats just not true.

That's just completely true.

Do you know why you guys continually deny this? Its because then in a round about way you know you would be admitting unfair reach of the left and its capabilities of brainwashing so many people who spend a lot of time watching tv and not working.

You are being self-contradictory. If, as you suggest, the reach were unfair, then these companies would not have sufficient funds to maintain their businesses.

I also love the elitism you are displaying. All the leftists are busy watching TV while the rightists are working, eh?

Where working types can listen to what they want to.

If rightists can't watch what they want to, that means they don't make money for the people that broadcast TV. Entertainment is the most capitalistic business in the world, you are only worth anything if you make money for someone.

Sounds like a great American dream doesnt it? Sit home, do nothing, then vote to take good and services from the productive people. While also claiming how unfair, racist, and mean everyone is. All because the tube instructed you to. Then go out rioting and protesting because you have nothing else better to do.

Smug, elitist, pathetic whining.

Do you ever ask yourself why you dont see Republican types rioting and protesting unless its in socialist countries?

It is fundamentally untrue to claim people "dont see Republican types rioting and protesting unless its in socialist countries". I'm curious how *you* have managed to miss all the rioting and protesting by right-wingers. I think there might be a thread on this board started because of an incident that occurred during a right-wing protest in Washington D.C. by some right-wing high-schoolers. I wish I could remember which thread that was.

 

[Hotdog]

That's just completely true.



You are being self-contradictory. If, as you suggest, the reach were unfair, then these companies would not have sufficient funds to maintain their businesses.

I also love the elitism you are displaying. All the leftists are busy watching TV while the rightists are working, eh?



If rightists can't watch what they want to, that means they don't make money for the people that broadcast TV. Entertainment is the most capitalistic business in the world, you are only worth anything if you make money for someone.



Smug, elitist, pathetic whining.



It is fundamentally untrue to claim people "dont see Republican types rioting and protesting unless its in socialist countries". I'm curious how *you* have managed to miss all the rioting and protesting by right-wingers. I think there might be a thread on this board started because of an incident that occurred during a right-wing protest in Washington D.C. by some right-wing high-schoolers. I wish I could remember which thread that was.

Did you know that radio uses advertisements too?

I dont even need to here a single advertisement to go to the store and see the same products that have been around for years or new ones, and choose from them.

Also, the democratic base is made up of a lot of young people. Who most likely live with their parents and ask for money to pay for their things. They can also use their welfare to pay for things.

Look at the democratic riots. Do you see alot of people above 30? The answer is no.

 

[One Brow]

Did you know that radio uses advertisements too?

I don't see anything that I wrote which would indicate a lack of awareness of the existence of radio advertisements. I'm sure you felt you had a point by saying they exist. You failed to make it.

I dont even need to here a single advertisement to go to the store and see the same products that have been around for years or new ones, and choose from them.

Again, I'm not seeing the relevance.

Also, the democratic base is made up of a lot of young people. Who most likely live with their parents and ask for money to pay for their things.

Young people vote at very low rates. If the Democratic base were primarily young people, Trump would have won the popular vote and the House would still be Republican.

Nice to see you are still being elitist, though.

Look at the democratic riots. Do you see alot of people above 30? The answer is no.

You mean, as opposed to all the old people in the Catholic high school protest?

I'm not sure what any of this does to support your claim that "... pretty much every other big news corporation leans left". Did you lose focus?

 

[Eminence]

There's some truth to the big TV News leaning left (for the US, not particularly left overall), but it's overblown to a comical degree. There are really only the 3 big cable news networks (Fox, CNN, MSNBC), all the over the air networks are very balanced and nobody cares about cable networks outside the big 3. CNN leans left, while Fox/MSNBC are both pushing their respective boundaries on what one would consider reliable-unbiased reporting.

 

[Alfalfa]

There's some truth to the big TV News leaning left (for the US, not particularly left overall), but it's overblown to a comical degree. There are really only the 3 big cable news networks (Fox, CNN, MSNBC), all the over the air networks are very balanced and nobody cares about cable networks outside the big 3. CNN leans left, while Fox/MSNBC are both pushing their respective boundaries on what one would consider reliable-unbiased reporting.

Educated city people tend to lean left.

 

[Hotdog]

Educated city people tend to lean left until they get older, earn some money, start a family, and gain some life experience

Fixed. I finished your sentence.