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This season will vindicate Ty Corbin

I'd rather lose 82 straight games with Snyder than watch another 8th seed making 4-game sweep having season with Corbin.

There's a reason I didn't watch the Jazz for the last 3 years and Corbin was it.

What's strange is, despite the 9 game losing streak and having to watch Burke, I still love this team. They just have some serious mental problems they need to grow out of. I think things are going to turn around for them eventually.

There's no way I would ever support a Corbin coached team. It's much better to roll the dice with a guy like Snyder than put up with a guy like Corbin who was only interested in winning barely enough games to keep his job.
 
Snyder may be trying to do too much too early and in result is hampering the team's ability to just play. I don't know. Our team seems to be playing way too tense lately. Not sure if that is a product of Quin trying to implement too much new stuff too quickly/over-practicing or just the player's nerves from losing so much so early.
 
freakazoid said:
I hope you're not suggesting we got swept because of coaching. That Spurs team was 10 times the team Utah was.
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No. I'm suggesting we should have been playing our young core and losing games with them (like we are now finally) rather than playing huge minutes for veterans which allowed us to win just enough games to make the 8th seed. I'm watching the Jazz now because I was waiting for them to rebuild with a group of talented young players getting lots of minutes. With that said, it should be obvious why I would be biased towards the present coach, he's the one doing what I've been wanting the Jazz to do for 5 years. You haven't forgotten the vets like Marvin, Watson, and Foye putting up an 0-15 shooting performance and then being praised by Corbin for keeping the Jazz in the game, have you?

freakazoid said:
Huh?
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Corbin's conservative coaching style, especially his age requirements for getting minutes, his rigid and inflexible substitution patterns and strategies, was designed to win enough games to keep his job. So he did understand how to win games, to a degree (although I think he was clueless about how to make in-game adjustments. I honestly think most of the time he didn't really even know what was going on in the moment). The disagreement is entirely about long-term strategic thinking and risk-taking attitudes. Corbin for some reason -- it could have been FO directives -- acted as if developing for the future took a backseat to winning enough games to get swept in the playoffs. As you said, everyone knew the Jazz would simply get swept. It's just a dumb strategy that only makes sense if you consider the short-term incentives of people like Corbin (and the ownership who wants to make as much money as possible).

Keep in mind I'm biased by relying on box scores and reading what people here had to say. The Jazz playing style under Corbin was unbearable to watch for me, so I did other things with my time. I couldn't stand watching Marvin Williams, Al Jefferson, Randy Foye, Richard Jefferson, Earl Watson, etc... I knew the Jazz weren't going anywhere with them and that they wouldn't be on the team in a few years. It felt like one massive waste of time.
 
Spinoza said:
No. I'm suggesting we should have been playing our young core and losing games with them (like we are now finally) rather than playing huge minutes for veterans which allowed us to win just enough games to make the 8th seed. I'm watching the Jazz now because I was waiting for them to rebuild with a group of talented young players getting lots of minutes. With that said, it should be obvious why I would be biased towards the present coach, he's the one doing what I've been wanting the Jazz to do for 5 years. You haven't forgotten the vets like Marvin, Watson, and Foye putting up an 0-15 shooting performance and then being praised by Corbin for keeping the Jazz in the game, have you?
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1. Name one coach who's benched their best in-prime players for young, proven talent. It's the FO's job to construct the roster.

2. So...Were Marvin, Foye and Watson helping the team win or lose? You seem to be contradicting yourself.

3. Quin is trying to win games, just like Corbin. He's just having less success so far.
 
Spinoza said:
The disagreement is entirely about long-term strategic thinking and risk-taking attitudes. Corbin for some reason -- it could have been FO directives -- acted as if developing for the future took a backseat to winning enough games to get swept in the playoffs. As you said, everyone knew the Jazz would simply get swept. It's just a dumb strategy that only makes sense if you consider the short-term incentives of people like Corbin (and the ownership who wants to make as much money as possible)
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1. Once again, it's the FO's job to construct the roster.

2. Corbin took over a team in total disarray. The FO took a bunch of half measures over the next two full seasons, and Ty did an adequate job using his personnel well to construct working lineups and a gameplan (as it turns out, these guys are just terrible defensive players...). In his last season with the Jazz, he had no contract and was tasked to the impossible.

3. Ty was not the biggest problem, the FO was. They dragged their feet for two full seasons, and then hung Ty out to dry with no contract and impossible goals. He was the perfect fall guy for the front office.
 
I think it was time for Ty to move on so no problem with letting him go. However, he was a lot better coach than he is given credit for on this board. And he was blamed for a lot that was not his fault. He was put in a difficult if not no win situation with the Jazz. This board was continually trashing Sloan and Corbin. QS will be in the same boat soon.
 
Guess I just didn't understand the intricacies of Ty's offense and defense because I couldn't really follow either. I'm seeing a definite offensive system from Quin. Utah is getting plenty of open shots, but just not hitting them. Defensively, Utah has problems. Seems to me the initial help is weak (only 50-75% commitment) and the help off the help is non-existent.

Overall, I agree Ty shouldered too much blame. I wanted him gone, but I think many of us were calling last year a "GM tank." It was VERY clear from the moment the GS deal was made that DL was NOT going to provide a decent bench. The idea was to get a high draft pick. So Mission Accomplished on that. Now we just have to hope Dante stops playing like a ***** (and I mean no offensive to flowers when I say that).

This year is exactly the same. QS is installing systems, but we again have a very weak bench. Hood, Inlges and Exum are rookies. Gobert is a 2nd year player. Booker is tough, but by no means a guy who is going to light it up. Jazz are playing for another high pick. I guess the real debate is whether Hayward, Favors and Burks should have been traded for picks and the Jazz start from square 1. There was the Philly/Favors rumor and then denial so something was at least out there. And maybe if you dump those three, Utah could have very well contended with the 76er's for the worst record this year. Then with Okafor (or Towns) and Exum, Burke, Gobert and garbage, the Jazz try for the worst record again next season.
 
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Spinoza said:
The disagreement is entirely about long-term strategic thinking and risk-taking attitudes. Corbin for some reason -- it could have been FO directives -- acted as if developing for the future took a backseat to winning enough games to get swept in the playoffs.
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This is what I was driving at. Corbin was a scapegoat for all of our problems. I'm sure he made mistakes, but placing the majority of blame on Corbin was unfair, IMO.

Spinoza said:
Keep in mind I'm biased by relying on box scores and reading what people here had to say..
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Yeah, frustration has clouded the viewpoint of many fans when it comes to Corbin. Truthfully, the best coach in the league couldn't have made up for the fact that our team was bad, just plain bad.
 
freakazoid said:
This is what I was driving at. Corbin was a scapegoat for all of our problems. I'm sure he made mistakes, but placing the majority of blame on Corbin was unfair, IMO.



Yeah, frustration has clouded the viewpoint of many fans when it comes to Corbin. Truthfully, the best coach in the league couldn't have made up for the fact that our team was bad, just plain bad.
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Agree. But if I'm in the last year of my contract and want to remain in my job, you better believe I'm going to do exactly what my boss wants. I'm going to tell him my game plan and ask if he agrees with me. I seriously doubt DL wanted him to play RJ so much. And I'm pretty sure, based on the starting lineup we've seen for 21 games, DL would have probably told Ty to play Alec, Enes, Derrick, Trey and Gordon together as much as possible. It takes experience to play help defense effectively. It takes time together to develop offensive chemistry. I think - even with a new system - we'd be much further ahead this year if those 5 had started and finished 65-70 games together (adjusting for the injuries to Trey, Derrick, etc.).

Ty did take the blame. But he would have had something to confront DL with - and make a case for himself with the Millers - had he done what DL wanted.
 
Ya corbin got too much hate, but to act like he was not a bad coach is dumb too.

So many times he would make the wrong decision when the right decision was so obvious. I'm taking the most simple things...... favors should be the one doing the jump ball. On defensive possessions at the end of games you should play your best defensive players. If you need a three at the end of games probably go to randy foye rather than big al fit the airball.

It seemed like at least once every game he would make an amazingly dumb decision
 
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