Thoughts on Trading Bogdanvic

[NAOS]

Ingram really struggles to guard anyone. Can’t see one good reason why NOP will panic and swap Hart for a less defensively oriented player. But I guess it doesn’t matter in this thread.... All I have to do is say they cray and will send multiple picks in order to get a player that isn’t on Zion’s timeline and might be a nightmare next to Ingram. Job done.

 

[KqWIN]

Yeah, that’s not a complete trade suggestion. We’re getting an undisclosed number of picks.

And the suggestion that I went off the rails by saying a 2nd instead of a 1st, is just straight up ridiculous.

Any reason why you switched 2nd round pick with “at least one 1st”? You did make that up, it’s ok to admit it. People make mistakes all the time, but there is a difference between at least one 1st and a 2nd. How would you feel if the Jazz traded at least one first for a 2nd? I imagine you wouldn’t be happy with that. Did you go off the rails? Depends on what you mean by that…but I know for sure you made that up.

If you disagree with the value we can get….sure that’s legitimate. You could have just said that’s unrealistic instead of making up your own trade and saying it’s bad….but whatever. The market on Bogey/Clarkson is kind of fuzzy. To be quite honest, I’m not even sure who would be more highly valued by the market between. It’s tough to really know trade value and not many good reference points out there. Covington had two years left and got two firsts. Gordon had less than one year left and yielded Harris, Hampton, and a 1st. How do those two stack up to Bogey and Clarkson? Depends on who you ask. It’s difficult because the difference in playing style and there’s also age differences. Fournier and THJ both got hefty contracts this summer which indicates that scoring still comes at a high price point.

But even if Bogey and Clarkson have good value, there’s still not that many targets out there. I have a strong desire to move some offense for defense, but if there’s no trade there’s no trade. I’m sure everyone would like to make a move that helps the team.

 

[fallenchicken]

Any trade we make will be to get off salary and make our team worse. You should be rooting for this contending team to stand pat. This year is our window. Maybe next year, but we lose again, maybe not. This is our shot. You'd be crazy to move one of the major pieces in the middle of this season imo. That's something you do next offseason. Because, like people have pointed out, there is no trade that makes us immediately better.

 

[The Jazz Wonderbra]

rob peter to pay paul. create a whole new problem to solve your old problem. what's the point. we had issues scoring the ball with Rubio/Crowder/Favors and couldn't get out of the second round. we now have issues staying in front of guys and still can't get out of the second round. talking about progress.

Look, we went from a lineup with almost exclusively DEFENSIVE minded players to a lineup with almost exclusively OFFENSIVE minded players plus Rudy for balance.

I am not suggesting dumping Donovan, JC, Bogey, and Conley for a bunch of defensive stoppers. Its that bogey is a bit of a luxury on a team that could use another Royce O'Neal type 3 and D player vs a purely offensive minded, minimal defensive minded Bogey.

 

[NUMBERICA]

 

[The Jazz Wonderbra]

Bogey has missed zero games since he has been on the jazz. Jazz havent been elite without bogey offensively as they have never been without bogey.

That doesn't say much. The clippers were on pace for 155 points against our starters if I recall. It wasn't good.

Bogey is great to have. But for his contract I think its clear that many of us would not be broken hearted if he was swapped out for a more dynamic defender who can still spread the floor.

Do I expect it to happen? No way jose. Would trading Bogey for a more defensive minded stopper who could stretch the floor reasonably well make the team better? I think it could.

But those types of players are a luxury too. We will just have to see what happens.

 

[NAOS]

Any reason why you switched 2nd round pick with “at least one 1st”? You did make that up, it’s ok to admit it. People make mistakes all the time, but there is a difference between at least one 1st and a 2nd. How would you feel if the Jazz traded at least one first for a 2nd? I imagine you wouldn’t be happy with that. Did you go off the rails? Depends on what you mean by that…but I know for sure you made that up.

If you disagree with the value we can get….sure that’s legitimate. You could have just said that’s unrealistic instead of making up your own trade and saying it’s bad….but whatever. The market on Bogey/Clarkson is kind of fuzzy. To be quite honest, I’m not even sure who would be more highly valued by the market between. It’s tough to really know trade value and not many good reference points out there. Covington had two years left and got two firsts. Gordon had less than one year left and yielded Harris, Hampton, and a 1st. How do those two stack up to Bogey and Clarkson? Depends on who you ask. It’s difficult because the difference in playing style and there’s also age differences. Fournier and THJ both got hefty contracts this summer which indicates that scoring still comes at a high price point.

But even if Bogey and Clarkson have good value, there’s still not that many targets out there. I have a strong desire to move some offense for defense, but if there’s no trade there’s no trade. I’m sure everyone would like to make a move that helps the team.

“I think we could get Hart and at least one 1st.“ Those are your words, not mine. They were in the post you linked for me. For sanity’s sake.

And, I said that your draft capital projections were unrealistic in an earlier post. I guess you missed that. So thats two accuracy errors on your end.

Lots of consideration in your post here. But you fail to mention the ages of these players at the moment of transaction. Surly that matters, right? And surly Zion’s timeline is a consideration, right? And don’t switch this up and start talking about Clarkson.


The standard of accuracy that you seem to think is standard operating procedure around here is hilarious. You think you’ve found a window to push me out of; and to think that you’ve made good, consistent, reasonable sense. More lols.

 

[KqWIN]

“I think we could get Hart and at least one 1st.“ Those are your words, not mine. They were in the post you linked for me. For sanity’s sake. Hmmm. Lol.

And, I said that your draft capital projections were unrealistic in an earlier post. I guess you missed that. So thats two accuracy errors on your end.

Lots of consideration in your post here. But you fail to mention the ages of these players at the moment of transaction. Surly that matters, right? And surly Zion’s timeline is a consideration, right? And don’t switch this up and start talking about Clarkson.


The standard of accuracy that you seem to think is standard operating procedure around here is hilarious. You think you’ve found a window to push me out of; and to think that you’ve made good, consistent, reasonable sense. More lols.

Those are my words. And what did you say my words were? Not the same. You took the liberty of changing them and arguing against what you made up.

Literally said a trade might not be possible and that it’s difficult to find a partner, over and over again. I also made sure, several times, to mention that my motivations were not Bogey specific. They were scorer for defender.

If you’re going double down on making things up to argue against, even my mechanical keyboard can’t save this conversation. You got me, I don’t know how to defend statements you made up for me. I’ll take the L and reconsider the statement you made for me and get used to strawmans that are standard operating procedure.

 

[NAOS]

Those my my words. And what did you say my words were? Right, not the same.

Literally said a trade might not be possible and that it’s difficult to find a partner, over and over again. I also made sure, several times, to mention that my motivations were not Bogey specific. They were scorer for defender.

If you’re going double down on making things up to argue against, even my mechanical keyboard can’t save this conversation. You got me, I don’t know how to defend statements you made up for me. I’ll take the L and reconsider the statement you made for me and get used to strawmans that are standard operating procedure.

Yeah, wow, this is all so imbalanced. I’m gonna take a step back and imagine how we’re going to brutalize NOP by sending out Bogdanovic (see thread title; but, ok, let’s entertain Clarkson) and get back Hart. In a year that we’ve clearly made title aspirations.

I’ll get back to you.

Btw, noted your dodge on the age-related issues.

 

[fishonjazz]

Look, we went from a lineup with almost exclusively DEFENSIVE minded players to a lineup with almost exclusively OFFENSIVE minded players plus Rudy for balance.

I am not suggesting dumping Donovan, JC, Bogey, and Conley for a bunch of defensive stoppers. Its that bogey is a bit of a luxury on a team that could use another Royce O'Neal type 3 and D player vs a purely offensive minded, minimal defensive minded Bogey.

But you forgot the third transition that already happened.
We were almost exclusively defensive like you said. Then we were almost exclusively offensive (although we were a top 5 defensive team with that roster but whatever). Then we picked up Gay, paschall, whiteside, and butler so we are more balanced.
5-1 and just beat the defending champs at their place.
Happiness for jazz fans all around


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[fishonjazz]

That doesn't say much. The clippers were on pace for 155 points against our starters if I recall. It wasn't good.

You show me a great defensive team that has never allowed a team to score hella points.
You can even pick the best defensive team in the league. Im betting some team dropped 130 points in regulation even against them.
Probably a bunch of times.


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[KqWIN]

Yeah, wow, this is all so imbalanced. I’m gonna take a step back and imagine how we’re going to brutalize NOP by sending out Bogdanovic (see thread title; but, ok, let’s entertain Clarkson) and get back Hart. In a year that we’ve clearly made title aspirations.

I’ll get back to you.

Btw, noted your dodge on the age-related issues.

I’ve explained why I think NOP would want to trade several times, but also acknowledged why it might not still be possible. You also dodge so much of what I say, ask me to say it again like it wasn’t said, and then don’t have anything to say in return about it. I’m just lucky when you don’t make up the thing I said for me.