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Trade deadline discussion

Handlogten's Heros said:
The salary flexibility it creates is very good. It also removes a bad defender from the rotation and Quin can't rely on the bench offense of just letting JC do whatever he wants.
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You can do that just by sending Clarkson directly into the NOP TPE though? The Royce/Hart bit just seems like it limits us more on the salary front for a pretty marginal upgrade at best.

I do kinda like the idea of Clarkson to New Orleans and then Ingles + 2nds to NY for Burks. I think with 1 more fairly minor move (udoka for a smaller minimum deal) we could completely duck the tax.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
The advantages of RoCo are two fold. He can help us have a legitimate defense while going small. He is very disruptive and that is something we don't have. I think we still need a guy that can stick with wings better but I am not sure we can address all of our defensive weaknesses in one trade.

He struggles in one on one defense with quicker players and his shot comes and goes. I like him better than Josh Richardson and some of the others thrown out there. If he comes at a fair price then sure.
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I don’t think there’s a person here opposed to having RoCo, the entire question has been what the price is.

A 1st is bananas. If the Jazz can find some seconds in a deal that offloads JC then maybe.
 
Eminence said:
You can do that just by sending Clarkson directly into the NOP TPE though? The Royce/Hart bit just seems like it limits us more on the salary front for a pretty marginal upgrade at best.

I do kinda like the idea of Clarkson to New Orleans and then Ingles + 2nds to NY for Burks. I think with 1 more fairly minor move (udoka for a smaller minimum deal) we could completely duck the tax.
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I'm not sure they would do just a straight Clarkson into the trade exception though. Royce is the sweetner that gets it done. If they would then you could do another deal with Royce.

Royce's defense this year has been hampered by his knee injury... I'm convinced of it. So while I get that Hart is kind of Royce-y I think its a solid upgrade on both sides of the ball. Without Joe we will need some guys who can pass.

Even watching House handle the ball and drive off of passes has been a little eye opening to how limited Royce is on offense. Every dribble scares me with Royce.
 
NUMBERICA said:
I don’t think there’s a person here opposed to having RoCo, the entire question has been what the price is.

A 1st is bananas. If the Jazz can find some seconds in a deal that offloads JC then maybe.
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I think a fake first is the compromise. If it was top 18 or 20 protected and turned into a second if it wasn't conveyed in 2027 then I think its a fair deal. It doesn't prevent the rebuild, which is the option I want to make sure we have still.
 
Here is my other wild idea. OKC owns the clips pick unprotected. So they want them to suck. So we send Ingles to OKC and we get Batum and Ibaka from the clips. OKC takes a ton of salary in the deal... but requires the clips to offload Batum with Ibaka making them worse this year. We give them a little bit of a gift and reduce the first round pick protections. They don't really want Batum or Ibaka. Batum is essentially on a one year deal... It helps solve our backup 5 problem and gives us a stretch big. Batum becomes French Ingles.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Part of me thinks we should do nothing... part of me says the title has never been more open. I think you and I have been on the same page with regard to thinking this team needed two trades... not just one. Maybe with Joe's injury they are willing to try that approach.

Memphis could be a juggernaut for years. They are built smart and have crazy buy in. As guys get closer to getting paid some things may change but **** that team looks awesome and they have uber-flexibility going forward. Other than them it seems the other teams are fading or stalled... so maybe you can make a move that props the window open a little longer. Bogey and Mike are the next to fade out... but they are replaceable (somewhat) and the window lives and dies with Rudy and Donovan.

I truly wish we could have just eaten the Favs salary and at least waited before throwing a pick down to offload it. Find another move to cut salary (maybe we did and Quin killed it). That first could be much more valuable to actually adding talent than the breathing room the salary dump created. Rudy Gay is a nice addition (I still believe that) but could we have been okay rolling with Paschall? Could we have made the signing and figured out the salary dump later. Maybe Favs finds a fountain of youth for a minute and his value pops back up. It was a fair trade but its kind of a mental block for me right now.
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I'm very much of the opinion that the window has never been more open....or at the very least it won't be more open than it is right now for a long, long time. I think very highly of Rudy, Don, and the situation where we have both. If you came out of a several year tank with those two you would consider yourself lucky. I think you have to put your best foot forward while they're still here, especially when the rest of the team is built to win now. Everyone else is old too.

The Jazz should have been way more aggressive during the summer. I was adamant about it the whole time because the issues we're seeing right now are not new. They could have done so many more creative things to save money and preserve some flexibility. Ultimately, I think the road block was "well we can't trade that guy". We know that was the case with Joe, but I think it was also the case with JC and Bogey. I'm not about to debate the merits of trading those again, but it just didn't seem like it was even being considered an option. It would have been amazing if we were able to fleece NOP when they were primed for it or done a creative move like moving JC+Favors for Eric Gordon and not having to trade our pick. I wasn't as high on the Rudy Gay move, but I still can't blame them for doing it. If you can get Rudy Gay, get Rudy Gay...but sticking with Niang long term and adding Paschall would have helped our money situation a lot.
 
KqWIN said:
I'm very much of the opinion that the window has never been more open....or at the very least it won't be more open than it is right now for a long, long time. I think very highly of Rudy, Don, and the situation where we have both. If you came out of a several year tank with those two you would consider yourself lucky. I think you have to put your best foot forward while they're still here, especially when the rest of the team is built to win now. Everyone else is old too.

The Jazz should have been way more aggressive during the summer. I was adamant about it the whole time because the issues we're seeing right now are not new. They could have done so many more creative things to save money and preserve some flexibility. Ultimately, I think the road block was "well we can't trade that guy". We know that was the case with Joe, but I think it was also the case with JC and Bogey. I'm not about to debate the merits of trading those again, but it just didn't seem like it was even being considered an option. It would have been amazing if we were able to fleece NOP when they were primed for it or done a creative move like moving JC+Favors for Eric Gordon and not having to trade our pick. I wasn't as high on the Rudy Gay move, but I still can't blame them for doing it. If you can get Rudy Gay, get Rudy Gay...but sticking with Niang long term and adding Paschall would have helped our money situation a lot.
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JZ did good work this offseason. Especially since we know now that he was essentially an interim GM. He wouldn't have been the guy to make the huge moves... and as we saw he was neutered when he tried to. So I blame Ryan. The Favs trade was all about the money.

The good news with how ****** we have been is that I could see a scenario where we make a couple shift trades. Before I think it may have just been one smallish move. I think the bigger move is justified though as you stated we likely missed our window there.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I agree RoCo is better than Tucker... but everyone knew Tucker was dogging it. Well.... at least I did. They also took back a year of bad salary in that deal in DJ Augustine... I forgot that. Expiring salary and a lotto protected 2027 pick is fair imo... if they can get more then we have to walk away.

I do like having the extension conversation as well. Though I think that means a trade of Bogey or JC next year. Is he extension eligible? I think so.
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I'm pretty sure he's extension eligible bc he's been on the same contract since forever. Who knows, maybe Roco just really wants to compete and is willing to take a one year extension to get onto a winning team. Then Danny is as cold as he says and trades him anyways :p

I don't have many qualms about trading JC later on. I'm actually interested if we could generate enough draft capital from trading JC to NOP for Sato and then sending all of that over for Roco. I still think NOP is a JC destination. They want to win this year and next year so JC's deal is good for them.

To me, we are in a much better situation short term and long term with Roco instead of JC. I would lean on Butler and Paschall to replace the offensive firepower from JC and Ingles.
 
KqWIN said:
I'm pretty sure he's extension eligible bc he's been on the same contract since forever. Who knows, maybe Roco just really wants to compete and is willing to take a one year extension to get onto a winning team. Then Danny is as cold as he says and trades him anyways :p

I don't have many qualms about trading JC later on. I'm actually interested if we could generate enough draft capital from trading JC to NOP for Sato and then sending all of that over for Roco. I still think NOP is a JC destination. They want to win this year and next year so JC's deal is good for them.

To me, we are in a much better situation short term and long term with Roco instead of JC. I would lean on Butler and Paschall to replace the offensive firepower from JC and Ingles.
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NOP could also take JC into their large trade exception from the Adams deal. No returning salary saves us a ton of money. It also gives us a trade exception we can use later.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
JZ did good work this offseason. Especially since we know now that he was essentially an interim GM. He wouldn't have been the guy to make the huge moves... and as we saw he was neutered when he tried to. So I blame Ryan. The Favs trade was all about the money.

The good news with how ****** we have been is that I could see a scenario where we make a couple shift trades. Before I think it may have just been one smallish move. I think the bigger move is justified though as you stated we likely missed our window there.
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Yeah I've been on record saying that nothing that has happened really matters, and I still mostly feel that way. It doesn't surprise me we've fallen apart without Don and Rudy...but the degree to which this team is falling apart is pretty alarming and I can't keep ignoring it.

Having said that, I do think some of this tension is good. Maybe too much, but better than nothing. The alternative scenario of us continuing to annihilate everyone in the RS would have just produced more false gold come playoff time. So while this tension could truly blow this team up, I don't think it's necessarily bad that Quin is getting some heat, or that the FO might be forced into making trades, or that Don is getting **** from people about his defense. Like I said, I think we have too much...but maybe too much is better than the zero tension we had last year.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
NOP could also take JC into their large trade exception from the Adams deal. No returning salary saves us a ton of money. It also gives us a trade exception we can use later.
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Could save POR tons of money too, they are also tax team and moving Covington would allow them to duck it. Returning zero money back and a second could be worth it for them.
 
KqWIN said:
I'm going to pull an Infection and say, who??? Who is this "bold" young player that we can get with a 2028 first round pick?

When it's 2028 and Mitchell is long gone and Gobert is old...we're going to be thinking about how good they were and wish we could have done more with them. Even if we traded that pick and we totally fall on our face again, I would have no regrets because we at least gave it our best shot when we had our best shot.

The solution to winning a championship isn't holding onto a pick 6 years down the road.
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I'm not saying our future first gets us some awesome young player, but I do think a future first could be packaged with our current assets to get a real difference maker. I don't believe that Roco is a true difference maker.

I'm all for trading the assets for the right player. I was all in on trading for Jrue. I know that guy would have paired perfectly with Don. I would have given more for Jrue than we gave for Conley, but for some reason we were fixated on Conley. What's even more ironic or frustrating is that NOLA actually valued Favors pretty highly. So much so that they used $17 million of cap space AND a 2nd rounder to take him from us. Like why didn't we just trade Favors, Allen, Korver and 3 first rounders for Jrue?

I know this is an exercise in futility, but I'm more than willing to trade picks for something right now. We have put ourselves into a corner where we have to maximize now.
 
@Handlogten's Heros The Adams TPE is such a good callout. I think the deal of JC -> NOP, Roco -> UTA, and 2nd(s) from NOP ->POR makes a ton of sense. If the Trailblazers want to trade Roco, they are kind sorta signaling they want to tank anyways. This would allow for that and take them under the tax. NOP, is desperately trying to make the play ins. JC would be a huge instant upgrade over NAW and guess who is in the #10 spot right now....Portland. Makes NOP better and their competition worse at the same time.

Jaxson Hayes could also be traded instead of picks from NOP. It would still cut enough salary for POR to get under the tax.
 
I've sort of gone forward on what type of defender is most important, someone who can guard well on the ball or someone who can cover well off the ball. I'm leaning towards the later. Any way you shake it, the Jazz are going to have holes in their perimeter defense. Conley and Mitchell are always going to be targets, Bogey is a target if he's not included in the trade, and Royce is basically a target himself. Given all those defensive holes, I think having someone who can better cover up them up is more important than one guy who can guard one player. 2v5 defense might just be OK if you have Gobert and Roco because those guys are great.
 
KqWIN said:
@Handlogten's Heros The Adams TPE is such a good callout. I think the deal of JC -> NOP, Roco -> UTA, and 2nd(s) from NOP ->POR makes a ton of sense. If the Trailblazers want to trade Roco, they are kind sorta signaling they want to tank anyways. This would allow for that and take them under the tax. NOP, is desperately trying to make the play ins. JC would be a huge instant upgrade over NAW and guess who is in the #10 spot right now....Portland. Makes NOP better and their competition worse at the same time.

Jaxson Hayes could also be traded instead of picks from NOP. It would still cut enough salary for POR to get under the tax.
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Portland is close enough to the tax that I think flipping Cov for Sato actually gets it done too.
 
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