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Trade deadline discussion

I think the guy to go after is clearly Harrison Barnes, especially if the Jazz believe he has some ability to play on the ball.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Yeah, because Bojan is clearly worse on D than Ingles.

Do you not watch Jazz basketball? I know Ingles has effort lowlights where his age shows, but he still makes way smarter defensive rotations and plays than Bojan does 75% of the time.
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yes but since Bogey is having a career year shooting the ball and is a clear better offensive player than Jingles, it's still surprising that his offense superiority is not enough to make him a better overall player.
 
jom2003 said:
yes but since Bogey is having a career year shooting the ball and is a clear better offensive player than Jingles, it's still surprising that his offense superiority is not enough to make him a better overall player.
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I dont think you can use RAPTOR that literally.

Bojan is clearly better on offense than Ingles this year, and RAPTOR shows that.

Ingles is clearly better on defense than Bojan, and RAPTOR shows that.

The mix and who is "better" overall depends on a lot of other context and factors.
 
Ferguson_Mellochill said:
I think the guy to go after is clearly Harrison Barnes, especially if the Jazz believe he has some ability to play on the ball.
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I mean, it wouldnt be terrible. My fear with Barnes is that he really is just average at everything and he would get lost in the sauce in Utah like he did with Golden State. Obviously that player could still help UTah, but at the price tag? Im not sure I'd go for it.
 
There used to be an obsession about, “can this guys be the best player on a championship team”. I’m glad that’s faded out…but sometimes the simplest things are the most telling.

Take a look at all the recent champions. They don’t just have one DPOY player and a bunch of buns, they typically have a DPOY player surrounded with high level, all defense type players. The one recent exception would probably be LeBron’s Cavs

Bucks - Giannis, Jrue, Lopez, Tucker
Lakers - AD, Playoff LeBron, Caruso, Green
Raptors - Kawhi, Gasol, Lowry, Green
Warriors - Draymond, Igoudala, Klay, Durant
Spurs - Kawhi, Duncan, Green, Splitter

These teams are absolutely stacked on defense. For the Jazz…we have Gobert. He may be the greatest of all time, but front there we have to squint our eyes to see any of players as good defenders in any situation. Royce is considered a good defender simply by proxy lol.
 
Ferguson_Mellochill said:
I think the guy to go after is clearly Harrison Barnes, especially if the Jazz believe he has some ability to play on the ball.
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to me, both Barnes and Hart are low risk low reward type of deals. Would either of these guys help the Jazz? yes. But would either of them help us enough to push us to the top? probably not. If we can make deals to acquire both of these guys, it may make a big enough difference. but we simply can't afford both of them.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
I dont think you can use RAPTOR that literally.

Bojan is clearly better on offense than Ingles this year, and RAPTOR shows that.

Ingles is clearly better on defense than Bojan, and RAPTOR shows that.

The mix and who is "better" overall depends on a lot of other context and factors.
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yep, that's what I've been saying. every stat has flaws.
 
KqWIN said:
There used to be an obsession about, “can this guys be the best player on a championship team”. I’m glad that’s faded out…but sometimes the simplest things are the most telling.

Take a look at all the recent champions. They don’t just have one DPOY player and a bunch of buns, they typically have a DPOY player surrounded with high level, all defense type players. The one recent exception would probably be LeBron’s Cavs

Bucks - Giannis, Jrue, Lopez, Tucker
Lakers - AD, Playoff LeBron, Caruso, Green
Raptors - Kawhi, Gasol, Lowry, Green
Warriors - Draymond, Igoudala, Klay, Durant
Spurs - Kawhi, Duncan, Green, Splitter

These teams are absolutely stacked on defense. For the Jazz…we have Gobert. He may be the greatest of all time, but front there we have to squint our eyes to see any of players as good defenders in any situation. Royce is considered a good defender simply by proxy lol.
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Yeah, there's truth to this. Without Gobert, the Jazz are pretty much the Trailblazers.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
I mean, it wouldnt be terrible. My fear with Barnes is that he really is just average at everything and he would get lost in the sauce in Utah like he did with Golden State. Obviously that player could still help UTah, but at the price tag? Im not sure I'd go for it.
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The modern game is dominated by big wings/forwards who can get in the middle of the floor and create for himself or others. It's just what the game is made for. I'm not sure if Barnes qualifies or not, tbh.
 
Ferguson_Mellochill said:
The modern game is dominated by big wings/forwards who can get in the middle of the floor and create for himself or others. It's just what the game is made for. I'm not sure if Barnes qualifies or not, tbh.
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Like I said, I'm sure he would be a positive for the team, but he isnt going to be free. We dont have anything the Kings *should want and I wouldnt give up picks for Barnes.
 
Another way to think about this…Harrison Barnes was arguably the worst defender in GSW’s closing lineup when they won championships (Yes Curry was a good defender). That was his peak defensive form.

We’re praying we can find a trade for him so he can be our best perimeter defender and only other above average defender besides Gobert.

It’s a dire situation.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Yeah, because Bojan is clearly worse on D than Ingles.

Do you not watch Jazz basketball? I know Ingles has effort lowlights where his age shows, but he still makes way smarter defensive rotations and plays than Bojan does 75% of the time.
Click to expand...

I saw a stat today on twitter that Ingles is like 12th best in the NBA this year for points allowed per possession as isolation defender. I was shocked.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Royce is way too disrespected on here constantly. Yes, he's not a lockdown defender. HE's still a great defender and one of the more versatile defenders in the NBA.

He isnt Gerald ****ing Green.
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He's been rough lately... and sometimes its tough for us to remember back further than a few games. I do think he needs to be the second best perimeter defender and not used as a "stopper". That is more on Quin.

House looks solid on that end and I think could help the rotation without gumming up the spacing. We just need that point of attack guy or that big time disruptive force to add to this group imo. Honestly a lot of the changes that need to be made are Quin things.

There was one stupid possession last night where Conley got ripped and Saben Lee took it for a dunk. We need some of that energy... then the ball handler can't relax. Guys can dance and just be super chill with our perimeter guys on them... no one gets worried until they see Rudy at the rim... once you remove Rudy from the rim.... its just all over.

We haven't figured out two things:

1- How to keep Rudy at the rim without surrendering wide *** open shots.
2- How to have some level of resistance when Rudy is not at the rim.

It's effort, it's personnel, it's coaching... I don't think we have answers to any of them honestly.
 
BTW listened to the Duncan podcast today with Jake L Fisher. Said the Jazz were stoked about House and glad to get him for free. Said we'd love to get Grant but don't have the goods. He also said we are definitely willing to part with Ingles and a pick for an upgrade but doesn't see a logical upgrade out there.
 
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