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Trade deadline discussion

Conley needs to shoot more. There is way too much consistent bad shooting by Bogey and Clarkson. When they are having rough nights Quin cant just keep rolling with them. As a leader yeah you gotta trust them to bounce back but it's impacting too many games. And in the playoffs it pretty much guarantees to keep our opponents in the series.
What's the point of having so many high usage shooters when you don't roll with who's hot. It's impossible for all of them to be shooting well. Screw the line ups, if Clarkson is on fire play him in the clutch. If Bogey is 3-15 play Ingles instead. Hell, play Pascall so Conley has more usage.
 
Tony deleted this pretty quickly after tweeting it.
He’s a coward. He was afraid it might actually mean he had an opinion or was speculating on things instead of just reporting what everyone can see with their own damn eyes.
 
tony need to stop!

don't stir something out of nowhere
I think the local media has been too kind with our situation. We aren't contenders. We are paying stupid money in the luxury.

The Denver series was eye opening. The Memphis series was tougher than The Clippers series was tragic. This regular season has shown that our system and roster is flawed.

There is that expression that a defense doesn't go through streaks. Well our offense does and our defense is always off.



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Blaming JC, Joe or Royce for our issues is foolish.

There are 4 people to blame:

Quin - seems inconsistent yet unwilling to think outside his own box

Rudy - sure he's a hard worker, but I don't think he's a guy who really motivates his teammates. They respect him but also seem annoyed by him. I think his comments to the media maybe have finally taken their toll

Conley - he was brought in to be our missing piece and provide savvy vet leadership. I don't see **** from him other than being a great guy and solid player

Don - playoff superstar who has to find a way to carry this team in the regular season like he has in the playoffs. His effort is not enough.

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The problem you are alluding to is there is no clear leadership of the team.

With the Sloan/Stockton/Malone teams, we had 3 leaders who did not hesitate to talk to the rest of the team, and yet the 2 stars still deferred to the coach as it was his team, he was the ultimate leader.

Look at all the great teams and they have players and/or coaches that step in and function as the leader the team needs.

Steph is widely credited with getting buy-in and stellar performances from perennial near-busts like Wiggins. Obviously LeBron is the de facto coach wherever he goes, and players listen. Popovich is a great example of a leader being able to get more than the sum of the parts out of a team. Jordan was the leader and the team followed.

The leader does more than just talk, he also shows and they follow his example. I remember reading something at the start of the season about Steph telling the team they needed to increase their defensive efforts this year, that this was their year to get back to prominence, and he backed it up with increasing his own focus on D and making it a focal point of what the team was doing. The leaders also hold the players accountable, but above all, they hold themselves accountable in a way that inspires great play.

We simply do not have a leader, not like that, not like what we need. Conley is too nice, Gobert is too intensely focused on his game and the refs, Mitchell is too self-absorbed, Quin is too rigid and soft. We do not have the guy that will step up and call people out in a productive way, or call themselves out, or meet them as they come back to the bench, or gather the team into an impromptu huddle on the floor and give direction. Our guys just high 5 each other, criticize publicly in passive-aggressive ways instead of discuss issues earnestly with each other, and rarely come together in the course of the game unless it is at the bench.

We need a leader, among many other things, but this is a big point we cannot ignore.
 
The problem you are alluding to is there is no clear leadership of the team.

With the Sloan/Stockton/Malone teams, we had 3 leaders who did not hesitate to talk to the rest of the team, and yet the 2 stars still deferred to the coach as it was his team, he was the ultimate leader.

Look at all the great teams and they have players and/or coaches that step in and function as the leader the team needs.

Steph is widely credited with getting buy-in and stellar performances from perennial near-busts like Wiggins. Obviously LeBron is the de facto coach wherever he goes, and players listen. Popovich is a great example of a leader being able to get more than the sum of the parts out of a team. Jordan was the leader and the team followed.

The leader does more than just talk, he also shows and they follow his example. I remember reading something at the start of the season about Steph telling the team they needed to increase their defensive efforts this year, that this was their year to get back to prominence, and he backed it up with increasing his own focus on D and making it a focal point of what the team was doing. The leaders also hold the players accountable, but above all, they hold themselves accountable in a way that inspires great play.

We simply do not have a leader, not like that, not like what we need. Conley is too nice, Gobert is too intensely focused on his game and the refs, Mitchell is too self-absorbed, Quin is too rigid and soft. We do not have the guy that will step up and call people out in a productive way, or call themselves out, or meet them as they come back to the bench, or gather the team into an impromptu huddle on the floor and give direction. Our guys just high 5 each other, criticize publicly in passive-aggressive ways instead of discuss issues earnestly with each other, and rarely come together in the course of the game unless it is at the bench.

We need a leader, among many other things, but this is a big point we cannot ignore.
You are correct. We lack someone stepping up as the leader which is a major issue.

Rudy has been the epicenter and for some reason it just hasn't worked. Many would think with his work ethic and influence on the game, he would be a natural fit. But something just does not work there.

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You are correct. We lack someone stepping up as the leader which is a major issue.

Rudy has been the epicenter and for some reason it just hasn't worked. Many would think with his work ethic and influence on the game, he would be a natural fit. But something just does not work there.

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It is pretty clear there are issues of respect on the team, and the rift between Mitchell and Gobert goes deeper than gets reported, imo. This means the team is fractured between the 2 best players, neither of which are good at communicating with each other or the team, so they snipe at each other, and tend to ignore each other in the game and on the bench. Neither one is mature enough to take on the mantle of the leader the team needs, and it is obvious they do not respect each other, and that is the basic level of a productive relationship. It is broken and there isn't anyone in our group with the skill set to fix it or at least get it functioning at a moderately productive level. That's a problem.
 
It is pretty clear there are issues of respect on the team, and the rift between Mitchell and Gobert goes deeper than gets reported, imo. This means the team is fractured between the 2 best players, neither of which are good at communicating with each other or the team, so they snipe at each other, and tend to ignore each other in the game and on the bench. Neither one is mature enough to take on the mantle of the leader the team needs, and it is obvious they do not respect each other, and that is the basic level of a productive relationship. It is broken and there isn't anyone in our group with the skill set to fix it or at least get it functioning at a moderately productive level. That's a problem.
I think it's Rudy's team and it would be very difficult to take control from him. Donovan should definitely do and say more, but I think that divide is real.

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If Ben Simmons weren't a headcase, I would consider a DM swap. His defense would do wonders for us and some of our other offensive weapons would take the pressure off him to score and rather facilitate.

But there's no way Simmons would want to play here (plus this forum would explode as oneye would take an eternal victory lap).
 
The problem you are alluding to is there is no clear leadership of the team.

With the Sloan/Stockton/Malone teams, we had 3 leaders who did not hesitate to talk to the rest of the team, and yet the 2 stars still deferred to the coach as it was his team, he was the ultimate leader.

Look at all the great teams and they have players and/or coaches that step in and function as the leader the team needs.

Steph is widely credited with getting buy-in and stellar performances from perennial near-busts like Wiggins. Obviously LeBron is the de facto coach wherever he goes, and players listen. Popovich is a great example of a leader being able to get more than the sum of the parts out of a team. Jordan was the leader and the team followed.

The leader does more than just talk, he also shows and they follow his example. I remember reading something at the start of the season about Steph telling the team they needed to increase their defensive efforts this year, that this was their year to get back to prominence, and he backed it up with increasing his own focus on D and making it a focal point of what the team was doing. The leaders also hold the players accountable, but above all, they hold themselves accountable in a way that inspires great play.

We simply do not have a leader, not like that, not like what we need. Conley is too nice, Gobert is too intensely focused on his game and the refs, Mitchell is too self-absorbed, Quin is too rigid and soft. We do not have the guy that will step up and call people out in a productive way, or call themselves out, or meet them as they come back to the bench, or gather the team into an impromptu huddle on the floor and give direction. Our guys just high 5 each other, criticize publicly in passive-aggressive ways instead of discuss issues earnestly with each other, and rarely come together in the course of the game unless it is at the bench.

We need a leader, among many other things, but this is a big point we cannot ignore.
Steph but they also have Green... Steph is the good cop and Dray is the bad cop... but those two never fight each other. Dray rubbed KD the wrong way and he ended up leaving.

We have too many good cops. Been watching a lot of Yellowstone (no spoilers I'm not caught up just yet) and so now I am comparing everything to that... Ainge has to be John Dutton (kevin Costner) because not only to they have an age kinda similar look type of vibe but also because he is going to have to call the shots here... Rudy is Rip... does all the dirty work... loyal AF... underappreciated. Donovan is Kayce... I guess. One of the problem's is Quin is our Jaime... smart, polished, but he's a coward at heart and afraid to ruffle feathers. The other problem is we have no Beth. One of the best scenes is Costner realizes **** is about to go down and tells Beth he needs her to stick around. She asks "who do you need me to fight?"... he says "everyone". Shes a loose cannon and fearless... she fights everyone around her... including her own family... but she's necessary.

We don't have that... we have too many guys who are great guys, normal dudes, too well centered and adjusted. We need some mother ****ers that are out there to fight... and sometimes they fight everyone... including our team and coach. It needs to come from the right place but sometimes it might border on being cancerous. No more fighting this passive aggressive ********... I need guys separated on the bench. We need some crazy to bring out the fight in these guys. Draymond is as good at that as anyone... he gonna fight the refs, the other team, fans, and sometimes his teammates and coaches. Want to **** up that rotation again... you gonna hear about it.

We don't have one frickin smidge of that... and it started with DL and Quin. Quin is too afraid to lay into the guys... or the refs. We have a lot of good citizens... we need a crazy Beth. Haven't had it since Jae left.
 
If Ben Simmons weren't a headcase, I would consider a DM swap. His defense would do wonders for us and some of our other offensive weapons would take the pressure off him to score and rather facilitate.

But there's no way Simmons would want to play here (plus this forum would explode as oneye would take an eternal victory lap).
He'd be about the worst person I can think of to come into this environment. He's so mentally weak and I'm not sure he even likes playing basketball. No damn way.
 
If Ben Simmons weren't a headcase, I would consider a DM swap. His defense would do wonders for us and some of our other offensive weapons would take the pressure off him to score and rather facilitate.

But there's no way Simmons would want to play here (plus this forum would explode as oneye would take an eternal victory lap).
I am convinced he would make us worse in more ways than one. Not only will he be the focal point of the opposing team's defense, he also just brings too much baggage and too big an ego. The team would fall apart. No way do I ever want Simmons on this team.

Now if Ainge went and got him I would sure hope he can find a way to blend in well, I will always root for the team to be successful even if they have players I do not care for, but I really hope we are never put in that situation.
 
Steph but they also have Green... Steph is the good cop and Dray is the bad cop... but those two never fight each other. Dray rubbed KD the wrong way and he ended up leaving.

We have too many good cops. Been watching a lot of Yellowstone (no spoilers I'm not caught up just yet) and so now I am comparing everything to that... Ainge has to be John Dutton (kevin Costner) because not only to they have an age kinda similar look type of vibe but also because he is going to have to call the shots here... Rudy is Rip... does all the dirty work... loyal AF... underappreciated. Donovan is Kayce... I guess. One of the problem's is Quin is our Jaime... smart, polished, but he's a coward at heart and afraid to ruffle feathers. The other problem is we have no Beth. One of the best scenes is Costner realizes **** is about to go down and tells Beth he needs her to stick around. She asks "who do you need me to fight?"... he says "everyone". Shes a loose cannon and fearless... she fights everyone around her... including her own family... but she's necessary.

We don't have that... we have too many guys who are great guys, normal dudes, too well centered and adjusted. We need some mother ****ers that are out there to fight... and sometimes they fight everyone... including our team and coach. It needs to come from the right place but sometimes it might border on being cancerous. No more fighting this passive aggressive ********... I need guys separated on the bench. We need some crazy to bring out the fight in these guys. Draymond is as good at that as anyone... he gonna fight the refs, the other team, fans, and sometimes his teammates and coaches. Want to **** up that rotation again... you gonna hear about it.

We don't have one frickin smidge of that... and it started with DL and Quin. Quin is too afraid to lay into the guys... or the refs. We have a lot of good citizens... we need a crazy Beth. Haven't had it since Jae left.
Quin is just too clinical in his approach. No room for emotion when the calculations say we will even out over the long run and win at our calculated 65% clip. No need to challenge, no need to get in the refs grill, it is just a business driven by math.
 
Steph but they also have Green... Steph is the good cop and Dray is the bad cop... but those two never fight each other. Dray rubbed KD the wrong way and he ended up leaving.

We have too many good cops. Been watching a lot of Yellowstone (no spoilers I'm not caught up just yet) and so now I am comparing everything to that... Ainge has to be John Dutton (kevin Costner) because not only to they have an age kinda similar look type of vibe but also because he is going to have to call the shots here... Rudy is Rip... does all the dirty work... loyal AF... underappreciated. Donovan is Kayce... I guess. One of the problem's is Quin is our Jaime... smart, polished, but he's a coward at heart and afraid to ruffle feathers. The other problem is we have no Beth. One of the best scenes is Costner realizes **** is about to go down and tells Beth he needs her to stick around. She asks "who do you need me to fight?"... he says "everyone". Shes a loose cannon and fearless... she fights everyone around her... including her own family... but she's necessary.

We don't have that... we have too many guys who are great guys, normal dudes, too well centered and adjusted. We need some mother ****ers that are out there to fight... and sometimes they fight everyone... including our team and coach. It needs to come from the right place but sometimes it might border on being cancerous. No more fighting this passive aggressive ********... I need guys separated on the bench. We need some crazy to bring out the fight in these guys. Draymond is as good at that as anyone... he gonna fight the refs, the other team, fans, and sometimes his teammates and coaches. Want to **** up that rotation again... you gonna hear about it.

We don't have one frickin smidge of that... and it started with DL and Quin. Quin is too afraid to lay into the guys... or the refs. We have a lot of good citizens... we need a crazy Beth. Haven't had it since Jae left.
Good analogy. Fantastic show too.

We need Smart to be our Beth in the worst way.

Without a deal for a guy like that, we are destined for Jaime to run us into the ground.

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Steph but they also have Green... Steph is the good cop and Dray is the bad cop... but those two never fight each other. Dray rubbed KD the wrong way and he ended up leaving.

We have too many good cops. Been watching a lot of Yellowstone (no spoilers I'm not caught up just yet) and so now I am comparing everything to that... Ainge has to be John Dutton (kevin Costner) because not only to they have an age kinda similar look type of vibe but also because he is going to have to call the shots here... Rudy is Rip... does all the dirty work... loyal AF... underappreciated. Donovan is Kayce... I guess. One of the problem's is Quin is our Jaime... smart, polished, but he's a coward at heart and afraid to ruffle feathers. The other problem is we have no Beth. One of the best scenes is Costner realizes **** is about to go down and tells Beth he needs her to stick around. She asks "who do you need me to fight?"... he says "everyone". Shes a loose cannon and fearless... she fights everyone around her... including her own family... but she's necessary.

We don't have that... we have too many guys who are great guys, normal dudes, too well centered and adjusted. We need some mother ****ers that are out there to fight... and sometimes they fight everyone... including our team and coach. It needs to come from the right place but sometimes it might border on being cancerous. No more fighting this passive aggressive ********... I need guys separated on the bench. We need some crazy to bring out the fight in these guys. Draymond is as good at that as anyone... he gonna fight the refs, the other team, fans, and sometimes his teammates and coaches. Want to **** up that rotation again... you gonna hear about it.

We don't have one frickin smidge of that... and it started with DL and Quin. Quin is too afraid to lay into the guys... or the refs. We have a lot of good citizens... we need a crazy Beth. Haven't had it since Jae left.
And no, Rudy is not Rip because Rip is the rock. He doesn't ask questions and he doesn't rock the boat. If anything, Rudy is more John Dutton. He's leading the team but needs more help to stay the course.

Royce is more Rip than anybody. Just does anything he's told and tries his hardest at all times.

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And no, Rudy is not Rip because Rip is the rock. He doesn't ask questions and he doesn't rock the boat. If anything, Rudy is more John Dutton. He's leading the team but needs more help to stay the course.

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Rudy is Rip and Ainge needs to be Dutton... we can agree to disagree... but JC is Jimmy and we can all agree there. Fun to have around... good jokes and helps the general morale... but holy hell if you need to rely on him to do something smart or competent you are effed.
 
Rudy is Rip and Ainge needs to be Dutton... we can agree to disagree... but JC is Jimmy and we can all agree there. Fun to have around... good jokes and helps the general morale... but holy hell if you need to rely on him to do something smart or competent you are effed.
Lol. You have Jimmy spot on there.

The problem with comparing Rudy to Rip is that Rip would never in a million years worry about personal accolades. Or be the face of a franchise. Or publicly question anybody. Or complain constantly to the refs.

He would just do his job without demanding anything more than a pat on the back.



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Good analogy. Fantastic show too.

We need Smart to be our Beth in the worst way.

Without a deal for a guy like that, we are destined for Jaime to run us into the ground.

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There are a few things I'd do... trade JC for whatever you can get... he isn't the only problem but it has to end. And I'd either go get a guy like Smart or some other major emotional shakeup dude... or I do nothing if I can't get that guy. No need in further mortgaging the future for a piece that doesn't change things. Ride out this **** show into the offseason and then do the major move then.

Major means likely kick the tires on Mike but trading Donovan or Rudy. If you keep Donovan then trade Mike... don't do the same small guard thing. If Donovan can't be the heliocentric hub of a championship team then you don't need to build around him... so then move him in a year or so and do a full on rebuild.

@Saint Cy of JFC 's idea of Donovan for Brown is something you strongly consider... I think you could get Smart and a pick in that deal as well. If you trade Rudy then move Mike as well and focus on getting at least one-two way wing and a more offensively diverse 5 man.

I just don't see Donovan and Rudy getting us to the title and now they have gone too far together to not have that be the goal. Second round exits are now extremely disappointing and are considered complete failure. So may as well tear it down.
 
Lol. You have Jimmy spot on there.

The problem with comparing Rudy to Rip is that Rip would never in a million years worry about personal accolades. Or be the face of a franchise. Or publicly question anybody. Or complain constantly to the refs.

He would just do his job without demanding anything more than a pat on the back.



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Look it isn't perfect... but neither is the Donovan/Kayce comp. Maybe Joe is Rip... IDK its close enough for me.
 
There are a few things I'd do... trade JC for whatever you can get... he isn't the only problem but it has to end. And I'd either go get a guy like Smart or some other major emotional shakeup dude... or I do nothing if I can't get that guy. No need in further mortgaging the future for a piece that doesn't change things. Ride out this **** show into the offseason and then do the major move then.

Major means likely kick the tires on Mike but trading Donovan or Rudy. If you keep Donovan then trade Mike... don't do the same small guard thing. If Donovan can't be the heliocentric hub of a championship team then you don't need to build around him... so then move him in a year or so and do a full on rebuild.

@Saint Cy of JFC 's idea of Donovan for Brown is something you strongly consider... I think you could get Smart and a pick in that deal as well. If you trade Rudy then move Mike as well and focus on getting at least one-two way wing and a more offensively diverse 5 man.

I just don't see Donovan and Rudy getting us to the title and now they have gone too far together to not have that be the goal. Second round exits are now extremely disappointing and are considered complete failure. So may as well tear it down.
What you are proposing for the short term is likely what happens. I do think we have to get at least something useful for JC if we are truly trying our best to win it all this year.

I think Ainge and Zanik need to sit down with Don and Rudy individually. Take nothing off the table. Lay it all bare. They are the franchise. If Rudy or Don disclose any negative feelings in that meeting about the other, you got to separate them. My opinion is that they don't like each other but both are professionals who are trying to make it work.

Rudy's value is at an all time high. The deadline lacks a really good available player of his quality yet there are plenty of buyers. Frankly, his contract scares the ever living **** out of me.

If Don mentions anything about possibly moving on in that meeting, he is the one who moves on.

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