Trade deadline discussion

[Handlogten's Heros]

Even as I read what I wrote I don't like this. But its an Ainge type move. And maybe a blessing in disguise.

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This should be a safe place for a few days... no judgement of the wild **** people say. Like I saw some Kings rumors and thought... if they called about Rudy and were willing to do Barnes, Holmes, and at least one unprotected future pick I wouldn't hang up... if they offered two picks I....

Like I said its a time of sadness and frustration that we shouldn't be judged on in the coming weeks/years.

 

[LoPo]

Are Jae, Rubio, Jingles, Favors and Royce nba-all-defense level talents? I don't think so.

Jae plays with a lot toughness. but he's undersized for a PF and isn't exactly a standout athlete, just like Royce.

Bricky Ricky was a plus defender, kind of like Conley. But he's got his limitation and lost a step after suffering a major injury in his t'wolves days.

Favs was a 25 year old with a 35 year old body after injuring his legs. Last season we saw the old man could barely jump.

Jingles in his prime was probably our best defender behind Rudy. But he's always been limited physically and struggle against size and athleticism.

And honestly, defense wasn't a problem for Jae/Rubio/prime Jingles/Favs, the offense was.

That's why I mentioned guys like Roco, Bridges, Tucker, Dort, Smart. These guys either shoot a good percentage from deep, or are capable shot creators who won't hurt your offense. Really should've gone for these guys, instead of going a full 180 in 2019.

I agree that we should have kept Jae and/or gone after more of those type guys.

But Tucker has never been all defense and most would argue Jae is a better offensive player.

We got rid of Jae and Rubio who were better defenders than anybody we replaced them with. Joe declined. Royce is slightly better. We didn't find a replacement for Favors.



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[LogGrad98]

I agree that we should have kept Jae and/or gone after more of those type guys.

But Tucker has never been all defense and most would argue Jae is a better offensive player.

We got rid of Jae and Rubio who were better defenders than anybody we replaced them with. Joe declined. Royce is slightly better. We didn't find a replacement for Favors.



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I would argue that, purely as a backup and stop-gap, Whiteside is an upgrade over favors. We have sorely missed him on the 2nd unit these past games. He isn't sufficient to carry the load, but as a backup he is just about the best we have had.

 

[LoPo]

I would argue that, purely as a backup and stop-gap, Whiteside is an upgrade over favors. We have sorely missed him on the 2nd unit these past games. He isn't sufficient to carry the load, but as a backup he is just about the best we have had.

I would agree with that. I think Favors brought more intangibles and the ability to play some PF.

You are right as a backup C for how Quin wants to play, Whiteside might be our only defensive improvement of the last 4 years.

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[cowhide]

View attachment 11591

The Jazz likely have to throw in Jared Butler or the 2026 1st round pick to make this happen - maybe not. Boston is going to be mad over the cap next season saving 13 M is a big deal for them.

View attachment 11592

Likewise here, the Jazz would need to include probably their 2028 pick and Elijah Hughes.


Roster would be:
C- R. Gobert, H. Whiteside, Udoka
PF - A. Horford, E. Pascall
SF - J. Grant, R. Gay, D. House
SG - D. Mitchell, R. O'Neale
PG - D. Schroeder, J. Richardson, T. Forrest

It looks like we are giving away shooting but remember Jerami Grant shoots 33% from 3, (shot 39% with Denver), and Horford shoots 36% (for his career) while Josh Richardson is hitting 40% on 3s, and Scroder is hitting 36% from deep. This team would be taller, longer, and more athletic with about the same shooting percentages.

that is a horrible trade with the Celtics.

 

[SoberasHotRod]

I would argue that, purely as a backup and stop-gap, Whiteside is an upgrade over favors. We have sorely missed him on the 2nd unit these past games. He isn't sufficient to carry the load, but as a backup he is just about the best we have had.

Seems like Whiteside started out good, but hasn't been great for awhile. People were a little down on Favors since he was underperforming vs his contract. I decided to look it up and it turns out they are impacting the game pretty similarly. If you look at the most apples to apples comparison, when both players play in a lineup with Donovan, Ingles, Bogey, and Oneal:

Favors last year had a 107.7 offensive rating and a 108.5 defensive rating. Whiteside this year is having a 109.5 offensive rating and 110.3 defensive rating. Both a -0.8 net rating.

Obviously I would prefer Whiteside on a minimum vs Favors at MLE, but goes to show how value and expectations can warp our reality.

 

[416Klawzz]

I know... I've mentioned him infinity times.

Infinity +1

 

[cowhide]

Rudy was surrounded by Jae, Rubio, a damn good Joe Ingles, Favors and Royce but it still took rookie Donovan to make things happen.

Rudy is an amazing player, but not a centerpiece.

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When Rudy missed five games the Jazz got crushed and couldn't stop anyone. None of those guys you mentioned were elite defenders. You are overrating each one of them. Rudy is not the problem. He gets way too much blame for our other crapping defenders. Royce tries hard and is an above average rebounder for his size but he is not an NBA starter on a championship team. Favors was washed up a long time ago. Rubio was ok and probably the best defender. Jae was ok too but he wasn't a defensive stopper. It looks Like Ingles has hit the wall and Father time has caught up to him. Playing in the Olympics didn't help either. Jazz need to see what they can get for Ingles/JC and a pick. Then find time for Hughes and Butler and develop them. Making major changes during the season rarely results in success but the Jazz need to get younger and bigger and more athletic. The ONLY reason to trade Rudy is if you are blowing up the team to get younger and be in line with DM time line.

 

[Katastrofica]

When Rudy missed five games the Jazz got crushed and couldn't stop anyone. None of those guys you mentioned were elite defenders. You are overrating each one of them. Rudy is not the problem. He gets way too much blame for our other crapping defenders. Royce tries hard and is an above average rebounder for his size but he is not an NBA starter on a championship team. Favors was washed up a long time ago. Rubio was ok and probably the best defender. Jae was ok too but he wasn't a defensive stopper. It looks Like Ingles has hit the wall and Father time has caught up to him. Playing in the Olympics didn't help either. Jazz need to see what they can get for Ingles/JC and a pick. Then find time for Hughes and Butler and develop them. Making major changes during the season rarely results in success but the Jazz need to get younger and bigger and more athletic. The ONLY reason to trade Rudy is if you are blowing up the team to get younger and be in line with DM time line.

Midseason review: Grading each Jazz player at the halfway point

After a strong start to the season and some rough patches too, the Jazz are 29-16, fourth in the Western Conference standings. Here’s how each player graded out

www.deseret.com

 

[Katastrofica]

Midseason review: Grading each Jazz player at the halfway point

After a strong start to the season and some rough patches too, the Jazz are 29-16, fourth in the Western Conference standings. Here’s how each player graded out

www.deseret.com

I don't know about you guys but this is like 95% real recap

 

[jom2003]

I would agree with that. I think Favors brought more intangibles and the ability to play some PF.

You are right as a backup C for how Quin wants to play, Whiteside might be our only defensive improvement of the last 4 years.

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backup center has never been the problem. funneling everything to your center simply because your other 4 guys couldn't stay in front of a chair is.

our center fiasco would resolve on its own as soon as we put on some actual capable defenders at the other 4 spots. just look at that game in toronto.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

I wonder what the magical trade with Joe Ingles was. People here seem to think it was with GS for a lotto pick... I can promise it was not. GS can't even match salary that way and it would cost them infinity dollars in tax. I think it was something around Pat Bev, Prince, Ricky, or Bledsoe... not sure if that was two trades or one... I wonder if we were going to get Pat Bev... he's a bit of a clown show but he's top 10 on my list of "assholes we need on this team to give us energy and toughness".

I'd love to truly know... and if Quin over-ruled then he gets even more of the blame pie here.

The rumor was that it was an expanded version of the Eric Paschall trade, except that the Jazz sent out Ingles and brought back Moody, who was a late lotto pick.

 

[homeytennis]

Buddy Hield lit up the box score last night with 2 points.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

The rumor was that it was an expanded version of the Eric Paschall trade, except that the Jazz sent out Ingles and brought back Moody, who was a late lotto pick.

I think that was a Jazzfanz generated rumor because it doesn't work. GS has to match salary. I don't think that rumor has any credibility at all. The only way to do it would be Looney/Moody (after 30 days)/EP for Joe... that is a deal I don't even think the most homerific Jazzfan member thinks is fair. It also would end up adding like $25M to the luxury tax for GS. So we can go ahead and just kill that rumor.

 

[LoPo]

Midseason review: Grading each Jazz player at the halfway point

After a strong start to the season and some rough patches too, the Jazz are 29-16, fourth in the Western Conference standings. Here’s how each player graded out

www.deseret.com

Articles like this are so ignorant.

If the article was - "player ratings by their standards", then there is some merit to this article.

But just using a blanket rating for our players and saying....
Conley gets an A for "playing good for his age" and Don gets a B for being held to a different standard.



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[Jingled]

I think that was a Jazzfanz generated rumor because it doesn't work. GS has to match salary. I don't think that rumor has any credibility at all. The only way to do it would be Looney/Moody (after 30 days)/EP for Joe... that is a deal I don't even think the most homerific Jazzfan member thinks is fair. It also would end up adding like $25M to the luxury tax for GS. So we can go ahead and just kill that rumor.

It was a real rumor. I remember reding articles about it and I believe Andy Larsen even discussed it on Spence Checketts show. I believe the scenario you mentioned of Looney/Moody and EP is what was being discussed.

 

[Jingled]

Articles like this are so ignorant.

If the article was - "player ratings by their standards", then there is some merit to this article.

But just using a blanket rating for our players and saying....
Conley gets an A for "playing good for his age" and Don gets a B for being held to a different standard.



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Sarah Todd is the worst Jazz beat writer, by far.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

It was a real rumor. I remember reding articles about it and I believe Andy Larsen even discussed it on Spence Checketts show. I believe the scenario you mentioned of Looney/Moody and EP is what was being discussed.

If that was truly offered (I still don't believe it) and Quin vetoed it... then he can eff straight off. It literally would add like $30M in luxury tax alone from the GS side. They also need to find a starting center at that point.

 

[Jingled]

If that was truly offered (I still don't believe it) and Quin vetoed it... then he can eff straight off. It literally would add like $30M in luxury tax alone from the GS side. They also need to find a starting center at that point.

No way to know if this is the specific trade that Quin vetoed, it could've been a completely different deal with a different team...this was a real rumor that was floating around though, not just made up by someone here at Jazzfanz.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

No way to know if this is the specific trade that Quin vetoed, it could've been a completely different deal with a different team...this was a real rumor that was floating around though, not just made up by someone here at Jazzfanz.

that's fine and I was up in the woods during this time in the summer so likely missed it. While it was a rumor I wonder if it was leaked from our side to increase his trade value... or if it was "hey I know the Jazz made offer X" but didn't say they got laughed off the phone.

Kinda like how Philly every other day is like "The Lakers want to give AD and Lebron for Ben but we just wants some picks too".