Trade deadline discussion

[Handlogten's Heros]

Using a second rounder to dump half of a $1.5M salary rather than cutting them and keeping the pick.

It’s not even a debate anymore… if folks can’t see it why bother.

 

[infection]

Shaq wasnt good. We had Oni last year who was playing very good regular season defense. He chocked in the playoffs and we kept him again to see if he could improve, but he didnt so we cut him. Holding on to him was worth holding onto and see. This year we have 2 guards playing very good defense by a lot of statistics and the eye test. One of them Butler isnt getting many minutes but one of them, Forrest is. We are developing him into filling the need that we have. He is doing a great job of that, and seems to be improving. I would have liked to trade for a long athletic 3/4 that is also a big need but it didnt happen. It was a frustrating trade deadline. But we have Forrest and Butler who seem better fits and can fill the role you want Dunn for.

Also you can keep repeating that we could sign Udoh. But he did not want to play for the min. He got a lot more money overseas and likes it. He has been pretty clear about this.

I do agree we have made a lot of moves lately for salary purposes that is disappointing when the message is we are all in. This latest trade doesnt likely help us this year, even if its a decent move.

I dont think House is a good defender but he has been solid for us. I hope we sign him for the season. I am hoping we either wanted a different guy and were trying or promised him we would sign him later. I guess we will see.

The point about Shaq or anyone else not being good isn’t true point. The point is showing that we’re trying to address an issue. I even qualify that by saying we could fall flat doing so. Even last year I said that I’d be fine if we gave Forrest the Oni role. It’s great that he’s looked good during this stretch, but if we didn’t have COVID and injuries, none of this would have happened. We’d be doing the same **** come hell or high water. If a guy forgets it’s his mom’s birthday and ends up calling her to ask about something else but finds out it’s her birthday in the process, he doesn’t get points for being an awesome son even if he plays it off. I’m sorry.

And for what it’s worth on Udoh, he left because he didn’t get playing time. If you’re offering him the spot behind Gobert, the money would be irrelevant, also (especially when you consider how many millions and assets we sunk on that spot). Udoh was making $3.3M in China. The two years he was with us we paid him $3.2M and $3.4M. But Udoh wasn’t the point. The point is that many people here create a straw man, as if we’re pissed that we didn’t trade for Thybulle or Smart (hell I mostly advocated against Smart). I bring up Udoh as a reference that what I’m gauging this on is evidence of our effort to recognize a problem and address it, and not constant bitching that we didn’t land some savior piece.

We put forth a lot of effort to drop salary, though. Imagine if a smidge of that focus and effort could have actually been on improving the team.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Eh, Utah was great to Joe. He was great to utah. His contract was up and he got injured. They amicably parted ways. No bad blood. This is just that time of year for jazzfanz

“Amicable” is a little bit of a stretch when he publicly expresses hurt at what they did.

We’ll see what happens, would truly love nothing more than a reunion even if he isn’t good. But maybe any of you have had an ex before and were surprised at how they behave after the split.

 

[jom2003]

The point about Shaq or anyone else not being good isn’t true point. The point is showing that we’re trying to address an issue. I even qualify that by saying we could fall flat doing so. Even last year I said that I’d be fine if we gave Forrest the Oni role. It’s great that he’s looked good during this stretch, but if we didn’t have COVID and injuries, none of this would have happened. We’d be doing the same **** come hell or high water. If a guy forgets it’s his mom’s birthday and ends up calling her to ask about something else but finds out it’s her birthday in the process, he doesn’t get points for being an awesome son even if he plays it off. I’m sorry.

And for what it’s worth on Udoh, he left because he didn’t get playing time. If you’re offering him the spot behind Gobert, the money would be irrelevant, also (especially when you consider how many millions and assets we sunk on that spot). Udoh was making $3.3M in China. The two years he was with us we paid him $3.2M and $3.4M. But Udoh wasn’t the point. The point is that many people here create a straw man, as if we’re pissed that we didn’t trade for Thybulle or Smart (hell I mostly advocated against Smart). I bring up Udoh as a reference that what I’m gauging this on is evidence of our effort to recognize a problem and address it, and not constant bitching that we didn’t land some savior piece.

We put forth a lot of effort to drop salary, though. Imagine if a smidge of that focus and effort could have actually been on improving the team.

we are improving alright, but the major issue for the jazz is that the FO are always a step too slow in terms of discovering team's weaknesses and taking actions to address them.

Like how long it took them to find a decent back up center and how many assets they've burnt since 2017, starting with Tony Bradley.

and when it was abundantly clear that they needed more perimeter defense in 2019/20, and they went out and got... Ersan and Matt Thomas

And in 2022, when we finally got ourselves a decent perimeter defender in Forrest, where's the athletic wing that they've been talking since 2017, basically ever since Haywood left the franchise?

when they finally find enough size and athleticism to cover the 3/4 spot, Rudy probably will be 33 /34 and way past his prime

 

[Jingled]

My biggest fear at this point is that after we go out in the first or second round again this year, Ainge will convince Smith that we should trade Gobert and Smith will listen. You look at the teams Ainge built in Boston and he never spent a lot of money on the center position.

 

[Elizah Huge]

“Amicable” is a little bit of a stretch when he publicly expresses hurt at what they did.

We’ll see what happens, would truly love nothing more than a reunion even if he isn’t good. But maybe any of you have had an ex before and were surprised at how they behave after the split.

I mean in all reality the goal is to win. Why should we keep him when he can’t help us this year and came into the year out of shape and has actually hurt us with his play this year? He’s a fan favorite and I think that is getting in the way of reality for some people. We helped mold Ingles into who he is today. Gave him a 4-year extension without hesitation, etc.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

My biggest fear at this point is that after we go out in the first or second round again this year, Ainge will convince Smith that we should trade Gobert and Smith will listen. You look at the teams Ainge built in Boston and he never spent a lot of money on the center position.

He spent a lot on Garnett. He spent a lot to recruit Al Horford in FA.

 

[Elizah Huge]

My biggest fear at this point is that after we go out in the first or second round again this year, Ainge will convince Smith that we should trade Gobert and Smith will listen. You look at the teams Ainge built in Boston and he never spent a lot of money on the center position.

There can only be so many first or second round exits before something has to change. I think this off-season would be too early though. I would give this current group of players at least two more years to see what they could do. The core is signed together until the end of the 2023 season.

Hell, the package Sabonis commanded really opened up my eyes. Who’s knows what Rudy would get.

 

[NUMBERICA]

I mean in all reality this is a business at the end of the day and players say that all the time. Why should we keep him when he can’t help us this year and came into the year out of shape and has actually hurt us with his play this year? He’s a fan favorite and I think that is getting in the way of reality for some people. We helped mold Ingles into who he is today. Gave him a 4-year extension without hesitation, etc.

Maybe I wasn’t clear.

The thing that is the betrayal is dumping him with a garnish. I know you’re high on NAW but I think you’re high on something else if you think that dude in his current state should play ahead of any of our guards currently. If NO is such a disaster that it makes their players stink, then a kid drafted by them probably carries that stench and has to work to get it off. In other words, he’s developed wrong and is going to have to do as much unlearning as learning. That’s not helping this year.

 

[NUMBERICA]

He spent a lot on Garnett. He spent a lot to recruit Al Horford in FA.

Celtics starting Power Forwards Al Horford and Kevin Garnett?

 

[Elizah Huge]

Maybe I wasn’t clear.

The thing that is the betrayal is dumping his salary with a garnish on top. I know you’re high on NAW but I think you’re high on something else if you think that dude in his current state should play ahead of any of our guards currently. If NO is such a disaster that it makes their players stink, then a kid drafted by them probably carries that stench and has to work to get it off. In other words, he’s developed wrong and is going to have to do as much unlearning as learning. That’s not helping this year.

I’d love to see Clarkson’s minutes divided between Forrest, Butler and NAW.

 

[Jingled]

He spent a lot on Garnett. He spent a lot to recruit Al Horford in FA.

Garnett's a power forward and even Horford is more a forward than a center...he stretches the floor and definitely isn't a traditional center like Rudy.