Trade Gordo + Trey for the #3?

[fishonjazz]

Great questions....do the Jazz want to compete for the 7 or 8 seed or do they want to hit reset (again) on the rebuild?

I think Rodney and Gobert make resetting possible, but I don't know if I personally or the fan base collectively can endure another season of rebuilding.

Hayward for #3 pick is horrible trade for us imo and no way in hell would I do it.
Celtics would need to give up more. The trade would need lots of changes to it.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

There is a chance that there are more dudes like that than you realize but they played against top college level talent and their lack of offense was exposed and then they never got drafted.

Exum was aided in his draft position and nba stature by playing against Australian high schoolers, having a few good games vs good American high schoolers, and having really good measurables.

I hope he turns out to be our star someday. So far I don't have much actual basketball footage of him being a star. Which isn't such a bad thing since he was so young and raw during his rookie year. He was expected to struggle yet the team did well with him starting and he played fantastic defense. Gonna need to be a big time scorer though to be a star I think. Hopefully he has that in him.
The summer league game I was at last year was really really encouraging.

Or the fact that the idea of him is so unique that maybe it doesn't work.

I like Dante but those saying he can do this and that are complete guesses. He's a really good defender... We know nothing else other than he has some good physical tools and the idea of what he could bring could be special.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Hayward for #3 pick is horrible trade for us imo and no way in hell would I do it.
Celtics would need to give up more. The trade would need lots of changes to it.

Agree... I just think the trading of Hayward would be acknowledgement that the current core is not championship quality and we should hunt for stars through draft picks. I'd try to take as many A+ draft assets as possible.

 

[RandyForRubio]

Would buddy, isiah thomas, jae crowder be better than hayward burke and #12 pick, is the question that should be asked.
I don't know but definitely possible.
(If we are talking about trading Hayward, #12, burke for #3, Thomas, crowder. Which is what I thought was a proposed trade)

I definitely don't trade Hayward and burke for #3. Unless of course you are quite certain he will leave after next year no matter what.

No, I don't think they would better than what we give up.

 

[fishonjazz]

If we got just a reshuffling of the deck chairs in a Hayward deal I'd be upset.

I wouldn't be upset but i wouldn't be jumping for joy either.
I think crowder, Thomas and #3 pick makes us better than hayward, #12, and burke does. But maybe only a couple of games better. If the goal is to win more games then I think you do a trade like that (Plus don't have to max Hayward and don't have to worry about him leaving next year).
A very meh type trade.

However maybe DL thinks there is a player that will be available after the 2nd pick that will be a star. (I know allot of people on jazzfanz don't think so but we have all been wrong before) If that's what DL believed then hopefully he would make a trade like that.

 

[fishonjazz]

No, I don't think they would better than what we give up.

Fair enough

 

[orangello]

Or the fact that the idea of him is so unique that maybe it doesn't work.

I like Dante but those saying he can do this and that are complete guesses. He's a really good defender... We know nothing else other than he has some good physical tools and the idea of what he could bring could be special.

I completely agree with you. I HOPE that he can be aggressive and open things up offensively but all we know now is that he is an above average defender at PG and that would have been a MAJOR help this year.

 

[mellow]

Boston has embraced Thomas. He isn't going anywhere....yet.

I think Boston ultimately moves the pick,but I pity the team that dares dance with Danny.

Brooklyn is still paying for their brief whirl with the Celtics GM.

 

[orangello]

Agree... I just think the trading of Hayward would be acknowledgement that the current core is not championship quality and we should hunt for stars through draft picks. I'd try to take as many A+ draft assets as possible.

If that's the case then (as others have mentioned) we should look to Boston and pull as many 2017 picks from them as we can and hand then Hayward and something else that they might want outside of Gobert, Hood and Exum.

I'm no expert but the talk of the 2017 draft sounds like it might be a great one.

 

[RandyForRubio]

I'm too lazy to quote people, but Hayward isn't just a bit better than IT, he's easily a tier or two (more likely the latter) above IT. Hayward is one of the rare wing players who can score efficiently, create well, and defend at an above average rate. Trading him would be a mistake. Letting him leave would be a mistake.

Second, I love Crowder, but he's overrated right now. Brad Stevens is one of the best offensive coaches in the league. Quin is not. So these guys numbers are a bit inflated IMO, kinda like how role players under Jerry always regressed under other teams.

Third, IT is a good player, in his role. He's a 6th man, scoring option. But he doesn't play defense. In rare circumstances you can do alright with that kind of player, like Boston did, but they just did alright. Never will you have a contending team with a player like that unless you have a LeBron, Durant, type of player around him.

In short, we're overvaluing Boston players because of Brad Stevens, and undervaluing Gordon Hayward, who is really freaking good, because Quin is an awful offensive coach so far.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I wouldn't be upset but i wouldn't be jumping for joy either.
I think crowder, Thomas and #3 pick makes us better than hayward, #12, and burke does. But maybe only a couple of games better. If the goal is to win more games then I think you do a trade like that (Plus don't have to max Hayward and don't have to worry about him leaving next year).
A very meh type trade.

However maybe DL thinks there is a player that will be available after the 2nd pick that will be a star. (I know allot of people on jazzfanz don't think so but we have all been wrong before) If that's what DL believed then hopefully he would make a trade like that.

If they offered that I'd take it... but they wouldn't go that far. Crowder's contract status would be the reason to do that. They'd probably give up Bradley because he's redundant, but I doubt they'd give up any other meaningful win now pieces.

 

[fishonjazz]

I'm too lazy to quote people, but Hayward isn't just a bit better than IT, he's easily a tier or two (more likely the latter) above IT. Hayward is one of the rare wing players who can score efficiently, create well, and defend at an above average rate. Trading him would be a mistake. Letting him leave would be a mistake.

Hayward averages 19.7 ppg in 36.2-minutes per game shooting .433 from the field, .349 from three, and gets to the line 6 times per game. (Shoots .824 from the line)
Efg % of .493.

Isiah Thomas averages 22.2 ppg in 32.2 minutes. He shoots .428 from the field, .359 from three, and gets to the line 6.6 times per game. (Shoots .871 from the line)
Efg% .488

So they both shoot about 43% from the field, and 35% from three, and isiah gets to the line a tiny bit more and shoots it about 4% better.
They both have efg% of about 49. Neither are really efficient.

Thomas averaged 6.2 assists and hayward averaged 3.7
Go per 36 and Thomas is at 24.8 ppg (vs Hayward 19.7) and 6.9 assists per game (vs Hayward 3.7) (hayward already averages over 36 minutes so no point in re-doing his numbers per 36)

Hayward is certainly the better defender.
Hayward is also much more durable.

And I agree that Hayward is the better player.

I think crowder is way better than burke.

I think the #3 pick is a substantially better position to be in than #12.

The difference between burke and crowder and #12 and #3 is a lot greater than the difference between Thomas and hayward.

I'm sure there are many people some the country that think that Thomas is better than hayward (I disagree). Thomas led his team (not a real great team btw. I think Chicago and Washington to name a few have much more talented rosters) to the playoffs and he was an all star too.

I think it's a lot closer between those two than you.