Trade Mitchell (Include Clarkson)

[LoPo]

Lopo is so obsessed with this stupid concept of who they built around, Gobert or Mitchell. It's ****ing pathetic and he only does it to put additional blame on Gobert and deflect off Mitchell.

They built around the 3pt shot you idiots. Not a player. They built around Gobert's screening to create 3's as much as they built around Mitchell PNR ability to shoot 3pt off ball screens or drive and create a 3 off the drive. Mitchell and Gobert are incredibly symbiotic. In reality building around either player likely results in extremely similar decisions (unless you think building around just means enhancing that players stats as much as possible, not winning as much as possible).

There is almost no thought from the Jazz when it comes to roster construction other than shooting a ton of 3's and being really good at them while also having a lot of ball-handlers on court. If they were "building around Gobert" they would actually coach the team to hit him when he deep seals at 6'5 player. Or they would put additional defenders on the court to enhance his best defensive abilities. Gobert is just much better than Mitchell at what he does and is way harder to replace, so Utah struggles more when he is out.

Conley exist as much for Mitchell as he does Gobert. Jazz need a PG who will actually hit Gobert when they run PNR and Jazz need a smarter guard next to Mitchell to actually playmake for others and orchestrate smart offense. The idea that Conley is a bad fit with Mitchell is ****ing stupid. They are the best offense in the NBA by a country mile for a reason.

You've argued the Rudy side as much as I've argued the Mitchell side. I guess that makes us both pathetic.

As we look to change, and should change, to become a contender, we need to understand the logic and direction of the last roster build. It's not a Rudy vs Mitchell discussion as much as it is - how the hell do we put together a team best built to win a freaking title.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

You've argued the Rudy side as much as I've argued the Mitchell side. I guess that makes us both pathetic.

As we look to change, and should change, to become a contender, we need to understand the logic and direction of the last roster build. It's not a Rudy vs Mitchell discussion as much as it is - how the hell do we put together a team best built to win a freaking title.

No I havent.

My arguments against Mitchell are admittedly personal in nature. I just dont like watching him or his style. I dont say the team is built around him and that is the reason why the Jazz cant succeed or they should build more around Gobert.

 

[Ron Mexico]

I agree 100%.

Bojan and Clarkson were just basketball moves. Logical. We needed a 4 who could spread the floor while Exum had to leave.

The Conley deal will always confuse me.

No, you've argued over and over we built only around Gobert, not Mitchell. You freaked out when I said we built just as much around Mitchell as we have around Gobert.

 

[LoPo]

No, you've argued over and over we built only around Gobert, not Mitchell. You freaked out when I said we built just as much around Mitchell as we have around Gobert.

Sure as hell didn't build around Donovan Mitchell by taking the ball out of his hands, not putting defenders on the perimeter around him, and running the offense around Rudy.

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[NUMBERICA]

Sure as hell didn't build around Donovan Mitchell by taking the ball out of his hands, not putting defenders on the perimeter around him, and running the offense around Rudy.

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The system isn’t run “around” Rudy. It simply fails when he’s not setting screens and doing great at the most basic ****.

By the way and since this seems to be a point of obsession for you, Donovan benefits more from those screens than Rudy does.

 

[LoPo]

The system isn’t run “around” Rudy. It simply fails when he’s not setting screens and doing great at the most basic ****.

By the way and since this seems to be a point of obsession for you, Donovan benefits more from those screens than Rudy does.

So you are denying that we have built our entire offensive structure around Rudy?

This whole debate really doesn't matter. I just get sick and ****ing tired of people saying we built this team around Donovan Mitchell when it's just a bold faced lie.

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[NUMBERICA]

So you are denying that we have built our entire offensive structure around Rudy?

I do not understand.

You know that Rudy's work benefits everyone (more than it benefits him), right? I don't understand what the problem is, or how you seem to think that this somehow... takes away from Donovan when it does literally the exact opposite.

You seem to be hell-bent on waging war against Rudy, even when it doesn't make the least bit of sense. You are truly foaming at the mouth sometimes. It is utterly incomprehensible.

The team is built around both, and both need one another. For the billionth time.

 

[SoUjazzfan]

The team is built around Quin's system.
The end.
The problem is the system is set in stone. No flux for when things go to ****.

 

[Ron Mexico]

So you are denying that we have built our entire offensive structure around Rudy?

This whole debate really doesn't matter. I just get sick and ****ing tired of people saying we built this team around Donovan Mitchell when it's just a bold faced lie.

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No one is claiming the team is built solely around Mitchell. I have not seen a single person make that claim. You are the only one claiming the team was built entirely around Gobert including our entire defense, offense, and all of our players movement. This is not true at all.

I am not going to argue the details since you will ignore them, including what the team has said and our media mouth pieces for the team.

You seem to be trying to make up pretend arguments that are as extreme as your own to make you seem more reasonable, you are not.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

No one is claiming the team is built solely around Mitchell. I have not seen a single person make that claim. You are the only one claiming the team was built entirely around Gobert including our entire defense, offense, and all of our players movement. This is not true at all.

I am not going to argue the details since you will ignore them, including what the team has said and our media mouth pieces for the team.

You seem to be trying to make up pretend arguments that are as extreme as your own to make you seem more reasonable, you are not.

Straw-manning and goal post moving are the Lopo Special

 

[LoPo]

Straw-manning and goal post moving are the Lopo Special

I've said the exact same things over and over and over again for the last few years.

You're a liar. I could make a list of your attacks but I value my time. Just wish we had a forum where people could make their arguments without constant attacks from this cancer known as Cy. I guarantee more people would share ideas and opinions on this forum.


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[LoPo]

No one is claiming the team is built solely around Mitchell. I have not seen a single person make that claim. You are the only one claiming the team was built entirely around Gobert including our entire defense, offense, and all of our players movement. This is not true at all.

I am not going to argue the details since you will ignore them, including what the team has said and our media mouth pieces for the team.

You seem to be trying to make up pretend arguments that are as extreme as your own to make you seem more reasonable, you are not.

I'm tired of regular season fools gold built around a system that doesn't work in the playoffs.

Moves can be made for the team and not one player, but playoff superstars need support in the way of elite perimeter defense. Phoenix developed Bridges, got Jae, others. GS adds perimeter defenders every chance they get. Etc. We haven't done that for Don. We have done the opposite. We have taken the ball out of his hands while also adding nothing to our defense.

I think we do everything around Rudy. We play on both sides of the floor around his strengths and his weaknesses. We don't do that for Mitchell. Nickel and dime the small points all you want, but we haven't tried to build a team in Don's image. Every other superstar would have had this by now after his first 4 years.

I'm tired of failing. And I have been saying this exact same thing for years without change. I'm often wrong about a number of things, but about this I am completely right.

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[NUMBERICA]

I'm tired of making the playoffs

Fixed

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I've said the exact same things over and over and over again for the last few years.

You're a liar. I could make a list of your attacks but I value my time. Just wish we had a forum where people could make their arguments without constant attacks from this cancer known as Cy. I guarantee more people would share ideas and opinions on this forum.


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bruh you acting like Im some kind of 1 man show dismantling your ideas. It's a lot of posters on this board doing this to you.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I'm tired of regular season fools gold built around a system that doesn't work in the playoffs.

Moves can be made for the team and not one player, but playoff superstars need support in the way of elite perimeter defense. Phoenix developed Bridges, got Jae, others. GS adds perimeter defenders every chance they get. Etc. We haven't done that for Don. We have done the opposite. We have taken the ball out of his hands while also adding nothing to our defense.

I think we do everything around Rudy. We play on both sides of the floor around his strengths and his weaknesses. We don't do that for Mitchell. Nickel and dime the small points all you want, but we haven't tried to build a team in Don's image. Every other superstar would have had this by now after his first 4 years.

I'm tired of failing. And I have been saying this exact same thing for years without change. I'm often wrong about a number of things, but about this I am completely right.

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Yeah, giving Mitchell one of the most spaced floors in the NBA and the best screener in NBA history is certainly not helping Mitchell. Heaven forbid Donovan actually try on defense when he gets to play with a top 5 offense in NBA history. You can give Donovan all the wing defenders in the NBA, he still a trash can on defense. You know how PHX got so much better on D? Devin Booker put a lot of work in on that end and improved. Donovan has steadily regressed every single ****ing year on that end. That's not anyone's fault but Don's. You call the dude a superstar which each breathe you take, but somehow he's the only superstar who shouldnt be held accountable for his own failures.

Do you hear how dumb you sound?

The only thing Phoenix did better than Utah was trade for Chris Paul, but that was a huge risk because of his age and contract size. If the Jazz had CP3 they could have two top 10 player and Donovan rather than just a top 10 player and Donovan. The PHX role players arent any better than Utah's. They just have Chris Paul. PHX aint winning **** in the playoff either. Utah would have handled Milwaukee way better than PHX did last year.

ANd if UTah somehow managed to trade for Chris Paul when they did, you'd be the loudest ************ here complaining about how he takes the ball out of Don's hands and how he is too small. You going to say whatever you can to deflect off Mitchell because you gargle the dude like you got a sore throat with salt water.

 

[LoPo]

bruh you acting like Im some kind of 1 man show dismantling your ideas. It's a lot of posters on this board doing this to you.

You "dismantle" my ideas while taking personal shots at me. Dismantling ideas like:

Kuzma - you were wrong
Herb Jones - you were wrong
Trading Favors while he still had value - you were wrong

You will never own up and say - yeah, you were right or yeah, I was wrong.

If you don't like an idea or a poster, you take personal shots until they go away. Only some of your fanboys unwilling to battle you remain for the most part. But I stick around because I'm not just going to back down to your lame internet bullying techniques. It's just so incredibly frustrating how you are allowed to talk to people on this forum. People tolerate you and they shouldn't.

It's easier for Booker to defend when he has Paul, Bridges, Jae and others. How do you not get that? You assume to lecture others on the principles of basketball? It's team sport and you need a number of defenders.

This thread is about trading Donovan Mitchell. It's a stupid idea.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

You "dismantle" my ideas while taking personal shots at me. Dismantling ideas like:

Kuzma - you were wrong
Herb Jones - you were wrong
Trading Favors while he still had value - you were wrong

You will never own up and say - yeah, you were right or yeah, I was wrong.

If you don't like an idea or a poster, you take personal shots until they go away. Only some of your fanboys unwilling to battle you remain for the most part. But I stick around because I'm not just going to back down to your lame internet bullying techniques. It's just so incredibly frustrating how you are allowed to talk to people on this forum. People tolerate you and they shouldn't.

It's easier for Booker to defend when he has Paul, Bridges, Jae and others. How do you not get that? You assume to lecture others on the principles of basketball? It's team sport and you need a number of defenders.

This thread is about trading Donovan Mitchell. It's a stupid idea.

I was wrong about Kuzma when I was literally the only person on the internet who called him a lottery talent and 1st round pick? Interesting.

And I clearly said I was wrong about Herb Jones in a post a few days ago that you were a part of. STop being a little baby.

And I have no idea what the Favors thing is as he hasnt had trade value since like 2016.

And I never take personal shots at you. I talk about how dumb the **** you say is. And everyone realizes it.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

The idea that Utah is completely devoid of defenders is BS.

Gobert: One of the best defensive players in NBA history
Royce: A good versatile defender (Better than Jae Crowder or Cam Johnson)
Conley: A good defender

The only below average defender who starts is Bogey. The reason Utah struggles so much defensively is because DONOVAN MITCHELL is either unwilling or unable to step it up on that end.

Last year the Suns had a 110 defensive rating (Utah is 108 this year for reference) with all the same players. This year they are a 104. The difference is Devin Booker bought in and has really stepped it up. Gobert pointed this out because he understands basketball.

Utah basically has 3 trash can defenders on the roster: Bogey/Clarkson/Mitchell. Bogey is a lost cause. He really cant improve that much, same with Clarkson. Utah has to get rid of 2 of their bad defensive players. One has to be Clarkson and the other either has to be a Bogey trade, Mitchell trade, or Mitchell actually improving his D to become league average on that end.

 

[LoPo]

I was wrong about Kuzma when I was literally the only person on the internet who called him a lottery talent and 1st round pick? Interesting.

Okay, so who is moving the goalposts now? You skip over the last 3 years of bashing me every time I brought up Kuzma to quote yourself pre-draft?

You're just sad. Definitely a liar. The only "goalpost mover" I see around here. Definitely the one bullying people often.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Okay, so who is moving the goalposts now? You skip over the last 3 years of bashing me every time I brought up Kuzma to quote yourself pre-draft?

You're just sad. Definitely a liar. The only "goalpost mover" I see around here. Definitely the one bullying people often.

Ive certainly never outright bashed Kuzma. I may have bashed what it would take to acquire him. These are not the same thing.

And he's a starter who measures as league average on a league average NBA team. That's what Kuzma is. What exactly are you running a victory lap about on this?