Trade Rumors Involving the Jazz

[fishonjazz]

I understand why you think this but snubbing vets is hard to justify to casual fans (majority), to Silver (who said he will be watching "tanking moves" extra carefully) and most of all to the players.. unless the young guys are better players.

Second thing is coaches dont tank. They try to put the best possible team out there.. and our early season suggested he did just that. Even though we might now increase youth minutes Hardy will still coach them to win every night. And thats the mentality and mindset we want from him.

Also.. this is speculation... but if Conley doesnt play with Markkanen as much as he does.. is he still gonna grow the way he did?

I'm very happy with this season.

We traded away two great players and might have gotten equal potential back just in Lauri and Kessler.. plus 9 extra picks (I count Beasley and Vando as picks at this point), 3 swaps, Ochai and Sexton.

Good post. I dont disagree. Like I said in my post, its very difficult for a coach to do what I would have wanted. My two main complaints were ZERO playing time for Ochai and Kessler not playing enough. I think he could have thrown some minutes to Ochai and played kessler a bit more.

 

[rocfan1]

Good post. I dont disagree. Like I said in my post, its very difficult for a coach to do what I would have wanted. My two main complaints were ZERO playing time for Ochai and Kessler not playing enough. I think he could have thrown some minutes to Ochai and played kessler a bit more.

Good discussion. I think its easy to want more minutes for rookies but sometimes, at least initially, it may not be the best idea. For example Kessler fouls a lot and he gets himself into foul trouble, giving him a lot of minutes right out the gate wouldn't have been wise, in my opinion. I think he and Ochai are coming along well and at the right pace.

 

[Eddie Zero]

Jazz were rumored to be interested in John Collins last summer. First, it was a Rudy Gobert rumor, then it was a Bojan rumor. The Jazz must have some level of interest in Collins.

Collins brand has proven to be a case of planned obsolescence, that came back to bite the team that paid him. They cannot get off his deal without adding good value picks or players and even if they don't admit it, they know damn well its true. I suspect the only interest knowing Danny Ainge, was to take advantage of that fact and flip him to yet a 3rd or 4th team who has blinders on, imagining he can return to his former ways, netting Danny the draft picks while not having to suffer the baggage of a has been payed like a starter on a contender.

 

[framer]

Good discussion. I think its easy to want more minutes for rookies but sometimes, at least initially, it may not be the best idea. For example Kessler fouls a lot and he gets himself into foul trouble, giving him a lot of minutes right out the gate wouldn't have been wise, in my opinion. I think he and Ochai are coming along well and at the right pace.

Yeah, remember that that Ochai and Kessler don't yet have NBA bodies. Kessler looked like he was going to puke after the first quarter last night. Playing like both play for big minutes in 82 games (as opposed to the 30 or so just twice a week in college) would have worn them down pretty hard. I'd prefer to teach them for the first half, then turn them loose for the second half. It worked out getting more value for the other player as well.

 

[HermanG]

Good post. I dont disagree. Like I said in my post, its very difficult for a coach to do what I would have wanted. My two main complaints were ZERO playing time for Ochai and Kessler not playing enough. I think he could have thrown some minutes to Ochai and played kessler a bit more.

I agree but its hard to disagree with the choices made since we have seen so much progress from so many guys.

Hardy probably made them work extra hard in gym and practices so they "earn their minutes". Sounds like a Pops thing to do.

Sexton, NAW and THT got treated differently since they are not rookies. The fact that Kessler was named "untouchable" means Hardy definitely has high hopes for Walker.. and has given him the minutes he feels are best for his development.

But this is all speculation.

 

[KqWIN]

There are so many similarities between Collins and Lauri when it comes to their talent/situation/development. Not saying lightning will strike twice, but I think Collins has actually improved in a lot of areas since being frozen out of the offense and I think his offense will once again blossom in a different situation. He's a strong defender and rebounder. Elite roll man when allowed to and I don't think he forgot how to shoot suddenly. I think if you put him on this Jazz team he's 20/10 ish guy at 62+ TS and he also improves the defense.

Had we not given up Bogey for Olynyk, I think Bogey+Gay for Collins would be a no brainer done deal.

The Jazz aren't going to be operating from the top of the draft. They need to keep going for these second draft guys. Quickley is the other guy I loved, but he has regained his offensive form and there's no way the Knicks trade him now. He's a better player than RJ Barrett.

 

[fishonjazz]

Yeah, remember that that Ochai and Kessler don't yet have NBA bodies. Kessler looked like he was going to puke after the first quarter last night. Playing like both play for big minutes in 82 games (as opposed to the 30 or so just twice a week in college) would have worn them down pretty hard. I'd prefer to teach them for the first half, then turn them loose for the second half. It worked out getting more value for the other player as well.

So Ochai doesn't have an nba body but conley and clarkson do? Ochai looks much thicker and stronger than both. And remember that he played 4 years at kansas and just won a national championship. He isn't a typical rookie experience wise or age wise. He will be 23 years old in april. How old is sexton?

He is 6 foot 5 and 215 (probably even heavier now).
Clarkson is 6 foot 4 and 194 pounds.

 

[Shad]

I think Ochai is going to be great.

 

[framer]

So Ochai doesn't have an nba body but conley and clarkson do? Ochai looks much thicker and stronger than both. And remember that he played 4 years at kansas and just won a national championship. He isn't a typical rookie experience wise or age wise. He will be 23 years old in april. How old is sexton?

He is 6 foot 5 and 215 (probably even heavier now).
Clarkson is 6 foot 4 and 194 pounds.

He's never seen anything like an 82 game NBA schedule. I would guarantee you that Conley and Clarkson are more NBA fit. Also, most NBA players don't work out the same or practice fundamentals during the season. I'll bet Ochai is being worked pretty hard on his personal development between games with assorted trainers. I can tell you the Ochai we saw earlier in the year looked nothing like the player we have seen this month. As he gets more minutes he'll eventually be scouted and things will get more difficult for him.

 

[Tremendous Upside]

Ochai definitely has an NBA body.

He definitely doesn't have any idea how to use it yet.

 

[fishonjazz]

He's never seen anything like an 82 game NBA schedule. I would guarantee you that Conley and Clarkson are more NBA fit. Also, most NBA players don't work out the same or practice fundamentals during the season. I'll bet Ochai is being worked pretty hard on his personal development between games with assorted trainers. I can tell you the Ochai we saw earlier in the year looked nothing like the player we have seen this month. As he gets more minutes he'll eventually be scouted and things will get more difficult for him.

He doesn't have an nba body though? Rookies play and contribute all the time. Like literally all the time. Im sure he could handle more than zero minutes. This is 2023 not 1982
Rookie donovan mitchell hadn't seen anything like an 82 game season. he seemed to be ok.
Rookie donovan mitchell played in 79 games. averaged 33.4 minutes per game. Was 21 years old.

And again. this is a rebuilding season. this is exactly the type of season to play a 23 year old rookie more than zero minutes per game like he was getting.

I would be willing to bet that if you look up all the rookies from the last draft that there aren't even that many that were getting zero minutes per game. Even on non rebuilding teams. But especially ones drafted in the early part of the draft like Ochai was. And again, he was more ready for the nba than most due to 4 years at kansas.

I think hardy has done a great job. I think he is a great coach. Im very very happy he is our coach. Its ok if he isn't perfect though.

 

[LogGrad98]

So Ochai doesn't have an nba body but conley and clarkson do? Ochai looks much thicker and stronger than both. And remember that he played 4 years at kansas and just won a national championship. He isn't a typical rookie experience wise or age wise. He will be 23 years old in april. How old is sexton?

He is 6 foot 5 and 215 (probably even heavier now).
Clarkson is 6 foot 4 and 194 pounds.

It's not height and weight, it's strength and conditioning. They don't have the same level of strength and conditioning of most NBA players. That comes with time and training. Like the wirey old-man strength that comes with years of physical work.

For the record I agree with you that they can and should play more minutes. Absolutely. And the "don't have an NBA body" excuse is lame. That's how you get that level of conditioning, by playing.