Transgender and sports

[One Brow]

Yes. Intersex biological males exist.

That's not what I asked, but unless you say otherwise, I'll take that to mean you think there are biological males born with female genitals and uteri, who develop breasts, menstruate, etc., who have minds that developed with typically female characteristics and have female structures. Therefore, to compete in NCAA/USA women's swimming, you would expect these people to be forced to get three years of hormone treatments and provide evidence they don't have an unfair advantage, or else accuse them of cheating.

I simply didn't think you'd claim to have never said something you clearly did, and more than once.

My apologies. I was careless about adding the adverb initially. I should have said, 'Technically, once you have started hormone therapy, you have changed your biology and are no longer biologically male physiologically'. I would have thought both both 'technically' and "once you have started hormone therapy" to be sufficiently clear caveats, but I was wrong.

What I wrote was "you'll continue to spout unsupported ignorance like testosterone suppression making humans not biologically male."

Which I stand by, with the clarification that I meant physiologically.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

My apologies. I was careless about adding the adverb initially. I should have said, 'Technically, once you have started hormone therapy, you have changed your biology and are no longer biologically male physiologically'. I would have thought both both 'technically' and "once you have started hormone therapy" to be sufficiently clear caveats, but I was wrong.

Which I stand by, with the clarification that I meant physiologically.

The only part about any of your post that is correct is the part where you admitted you were wrong. Testosterone suppression has nothing to do with being biologically male or female physiologically because in anisogamic organisms like humans, the physiological difference between biological males and biological females is in the organic structures that produce gametes. Using drugs or surgery to alter phenotypic characteristics such as testosterone level or cosmetic features is not the same as making humans not biologically male physiologically. You are just wrong.

 

[Deleted member 365]

Natalie Cline is a state school board member elected by the fine folks from herriman, Riverton, and sojo... She’s in her 2nd year of a 4 year term. When I tell you these folks aren’t going to be satisfied with trans athlete bans, believe me. They’re coming after Obergefell.

 

[One Brow]

Testosterone suppression has nothing to do with being biologically male or female physiologically ...

I'm not buying into your circular and unrealistic definition. If you want to believe there are males with female genitals who menstruate, that's on you. Don't expect anyone to take you seriously.

I await your confirmation that, to compete in NCAA/USA women's swimming, you would expect these people to be forced to get three years of hormone treatments and provide evidence they don't have an unfair advantage, or else accuse them of cheating, since I know you prize consistency.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

I await your confirmation that, to compete in NCAA/USA women's swimming, you would expect these people to be forced to get three years of hormone treatments and provide evidence they don't have an unfair advantage, or else accuse them of cheating, since I know you prize consistency.

I do prize consistency. I wouldn't require anyone to get hormone therapy but I would require everyone competing in the girl's/women's division of sports that control for doping, including transgender, intersex, cisgender biological females, gay, straight, black, white, rich or poor, to maintain a testosterone level below 5 nmol/L both in and out of competition. If hormone therapy is required to maintain that level of testosterone then it is what it is. If an individual exceeded that level of testosterone, I would think it cheating, so would the IAAF, so would USA Swimming, and going forward so would the NCAA.

As a side note, you clearly don't know what a 'circular definition' is.

 

[One Brow]

As a side note, you clearly don't know what a 'circular definition' is.

Circular can be colloquially used to mean recursive, which your definition is not, . Circular can also be used to refer to multiple definitions that feed into one another, such as "we identify X strictly by Y, and we know of Y is correct because it is in X". Your definition is circular.

 

[TheGoldStandard]

I'm not buying into your circular and unrealistic definition. If you want to believe there are males with female genitals who menstruate, that's on you. Don't expect anyone to take you seriously.

I await your confirmation that, to compete in NCAA/USA women's swimming, you would expect these people to be forced to get three years of hormone treatments and provide evidence they don't have an unfair advantage, or else accuse them of cheating, since I know you prize consistency.

So essentially if you believe transmales exist you shouldn't expect anyone to take you seriously? (No need to respond, but maybe think before you type out idiotic statements like this).

I have to wonder why you guys keep posting on this like either you or Al will change the others mind. Quite foolish really. You both got your points across about 30 pages ago. Do you really think a discussion on JF on this will do anything? Put your money where your mouth is and actually go out and advocate instead of wating your time on this thread. Have you ever been to a trans support group, or asked a trans persons feelings on the topic rather than just spitting your diatrabe from your usual soap box?

I'd also be surprised if your employer condoned you spending what appears to be spending large chunks of your work day discussing multiple highly charged political topics, particularly since you have stated where you work multiple times on here. Just doesn't seem too wise to me.

 

[One Brow]

So essentially if you believe transmales exist you shouldn't expect anyone to take you seriously? (No need to respond, but maybe think before you type out idiotic statements like this).

That sentence had nothing to do with trans people, male or female. Try to keep up.

I have to wonder why you guys keep posting on this like either you or Al will change the others mind.

Trust me, I have no illusion he will change his mind.

Put your money where your mouth is and actually go out and advocate instead of wating your time on this thread. Have you ever been to a trans support group, or asked a trans persons feelings on the topic rather than just spitting your diatrabe from your usual soap box?

In fact, I have been reading blogs by trans people for years. I agree I would be a better person than I am if I was more of an activist.

I'd also be surprised if your employer condoned you spending what appears to be spending large chunks of your work day discussing multiple highly charged political topics, particularly since you have stated where you work multiple times on here. Just doesn't seem too wise to me.

I appreciate your concern. So far, they are happy with my ability to deliver quality data on time. I'm sure it was not in any way an attempt to dissuade me.

 

[TheGoldStandard]

That sentence had nothing to do with trans people, male or female. Try to keep up.


Trust me, I have no illusion he will change his mind.


In fact, I have been reading blogs by trans people for years. I agree I would be a better person than I am if I was more of an activist.


I appreciate your concern. So far, they are happy with my ability to deliver quality data on time. I'm sure it was not in any way an attempt to dissuade me.

I have no delusions that the broken spout of Eric can ever be turned off, as we see with the flood of posts on JF.

 

[One Brow]

I have no delusions that the broken spout of Eric can ever be turned off, as we see with the flood of posts on JF.

If only I had the approval of @TheGoldStandard , my life would be complete. Instead, I must suffer on.

 

[One Brow]

After a girl beat their daughters in sports, Utah parents triggered investigation into whether she was transgender

The girl’s school opened the student-athlete’s enrollment records dating back to kindergarten, confirming she had always been female, a Utah High School Activities Association representative told legislators.

www.deseret.com

I really should have expected this. Other people predicted it.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

Bravery these days seems in short supply and should be applauded when someone rises above to display it.

For those not aware, San Jose State has a guy on their women's volleyball team. It is not fair and it is dangerous for the young women on the wrong end of a ball spiked by a more biologically powerful male player. Four schools had forfeit rather than risk the safety of their student athletes. The University of Nevada-Reno made a statement that their women's team would be placed in a position of danger to virtue signal. They made this statement without asking the young women on the UNR volleyball team. Upon finding out the UNR administration had committed their team to being in harm's way, the volleyball team made a direct statement in defiance of the UNR administration.



It takes serious bravery to stand up against your own school and make a statement that is sure to draw mountains of hate from those pushing the idiocy that biological sex is a social construct. That made 5 schools to stand up for women.

However, that is not where this story ends. Today SJSU's Brooke Slusser made a statement in support of the UNR volleyball team's stance against SJSU and their own UNR administration.


View: https://x.com/BrookeSlusser/status/1846004360557613399