Trump and Putin in Helsinki

[Deleted member 848]

That's a fair point about the House.

You didn't finish that last sentence. Trying thinking more before you respond.

There is only one national stage in the US, President. With the exception of the Democratic nomination in 2016, I don't recall the last major-party Presidential nomination process where there was a woman still in the race after all the (male) minority candidates had dropped out.

1) I edited it soon after. Hillary Clinton nearly beat Obama in 2008, and if i'm not mistaken had nearly the same percentage of voters, if not more.
2) Dozens of regimes around the world, where women face larger extents of institutionalized sexism and discrimination than the United States, have elected female heads of state.

At this point in modern America, most social theorists would posit that while women face significant discrimination politically, it is less than that of a person of colour, and it is not singly sufficient to derail and destroy a political campaign in the United States. Any semantics that you may posit cannot erase this truth.

 

[One Brow]

It can be but poor people can go for free in the current system. There is no reason we should give rich people free 100k a semester. That is a waste of tax payers money. Its a tax that benefits rich people more than poor or middle class. They get more rich and everyone else pays more taxes as a burden.

https://www.brookings.edu/research/who-would-benefit-most-from-free-college/

That's an analysis for students currently attending college, which does not factor in the barrier-removing aspect of free tuition.

 

[One Brow]

At this point in modern America, most social theorists would posit that while women face significant discrimination politically, it is less than that of a person of colour, and it is not singly sufficient to derail and destroy a political campaign in the United States.

Quotations?

 

[Deleted member 848]

Quotations?

you're familiar with google scholar, i need to get back to work--

Let's put your point to rest right now (and with this, i'm logging out of Jazzfanz for the day).

There are 23 female senators currently serving the United States.

There are 3 black senators. 10 have been elected in the entire history of the United States. *drops mic*

 

[Ron Mexico]

I'm pointing out that your statement is a straw-man, and frankly pathetic. Me saying "this worked in 55/55 countries" and you saying "WELL WE ARE A DIFFERENT NATION" is farcical, and a defeatist mentality that stymies reasonable discussion and debate. It's a right-wing tactic used constantly. I've never said that everything that works abroad will work in America, but it's stupid to halt the implementation of something purely out of that fear. What, let people die just because of the fear that something "might not work" in America? Pathetic.

I dont believe that is accurate. There isnt a single policy that has 100% the same in each country that works like that. No, I dont believe 1 goverment style or 1 system is the answer. Many different ideas work and can be successful. People are also different and have different governments already. US is fairly unique and has a unique constitution and people view things differently than other counties.

Yes some of those ideas would work great, some would not.

Its not a strawman argument. I am not creating a new argument that is easy to knock down. We are having the same discussion on the same topic. Just because something has success somewhere else does not mean it will work other places. I think it is a reason to look into it. But its not factual that it would 100% work because it worked elsewhere.

Look at businesses. There are many successful ideas that most businesses use. That does not mean it will be successful with my business or every business. Even if most have found success, that is not a reason to just do it blindly.

Any studies that show that free public education and tuition disproportionately benefit white men ahead of white women, WOC, or and POC. Any evidence whatsoever (you won't find it).



Most money on all colleges? Bernie only supports making tuition free for public colleges.



I've looked them up-- you're the one who hasn't.

I just posted one.

 

[Ron Mexico]

That's an analysis for students currently attending college, which does not factor in the barrier-removing aspect of free tuition.

Thats true, but most of the groups people are fighting for to get free college already have access to free college.

Like I said the bigger issue is getting people to use the programs we already have or expanding them. I see no benefit in giving people who can already afford college free college paid for with taxes that would burden people at the lower end.

 

[Ron Mexico]

you're familiar with google scholar, i need to get back to work--

Let's put your point to rest right now (and with this, i'm logging out of Jazzfanz for the day).

There are 23 female senators currently serving the United States.

There are 3 black senators. 10 have been elected in the entire history of the United States. *drops mic*

Its not an either or issue. One might be a larger factor but that does not mean the other is not an issue. That is creating a false dichotomy.

Sexism is an issue, so is racism.

Yes Clinton could have won and yes another women could be president in the US. Yes, other women have gotten to be presidents in other countries that are sexist.

That doesnt mean it isnt a factor. Those people have overcome it. Clinton could have overcome being a women, but it didnt help her it hurt her.

 

[One Brow]

you're familiar with google scholar, i need to get back to work--

No rush. I feel no need to work to support your claim. Come back when you can support that most scholars feel black people face more political discrimination than women.

 

[One Brow]

Thats true, but most of the groups people are fighting for to get free college already have access to free college.

I teach at a local community college. The students get some aid, but very few go for free. "Free" is even less frequent at four-year colleges.

 

[Ron Mexico]

I teach at a local community college. The students get some aid, but very few go for free. "Free" is even less frequent at four-year colleges.

My wife and I also are adjucts at local colleges/universities. Students don't apply for most programs and don't have good help to get them. They also don't seem to know about a lot of them.

Everyone gets $2500 a year for the first 4 years of school.

Kids need help finding the programs and getting them, especially minorites.

I think there is a good argument for expanding and simplifying these programs but I don't support making it free for everyone.

Kids also need to be better educated on smart choices and how to pay for school without going into large debt.

 

[One Brow]

My wife and I also are adjucts at local colleges/universities. Students don't apply for most programs and don't have good help to get them. They also don't seem to know about a lot of them.

Everyone gets $2500 a year for the first 4 years of school.

Kids need help finding the programs and getting them, especially minorites.

One of the nice things about community colleges is we cost less, and have greater resources for helping students find financial aid. Even so, $2500 wouldn't cover 3 3-hour classes, and many students wind up borrowing. It's a more pervasive problem than simply hunting grant programs down will fix.

 

[Ron Mexico]

One of the nice things about community colleges is we cost less, and have greater resources for helping students find financial aid. Even so, $2500 wouldn't cover 3 3-hour classes, and many students wind up borrowing. It's a more pervasive problem than simply hunting grant programs down will fix.

It all depends where you are at and which school for what that will cover. But no that doesnt cover everything for a year.

But that doesnt require anything. That is just what every student in the USA gets. There are other opportunities as well that everyone gets. But beyond that we do have plenty of other programs. There are also multiple universities that are free if you make less than a certain amount. For example Columbia, Duke, and Harvard among many are free tuition, room, and board if your family makes less than 60k. Pell grants can get you up to 6k a year. FAFAS is up to 4k. Then there are tons and tons of grants for minorities. Then there are even more scholarships. There are so many programs that people should know about and look into. It is overwhelming for a lot of kids and parents.

Again I would not be opposed to expanding, simplifying, or other options for helping low income families and minorities. But I dont support giving every student free college tuition to public schools. That gives rich people a larger boost. They are the ones that will take advantage of it the most and save the most money, while putting a burden on low income families and tax payers. Especially ones that dont end up going to college.

There are better solutions. I think we should pursue those.

I also think kids need to learn that college isnt a given. I came from a poor family and had to work very hard to get through all of my schooling while working full time. I had some advantages others dont have but I also generally appreciated it more than kids going to school on their parents dime (or governments.)