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Two predictions re Hayward and the future of the team.

underKANTER said:
He drives more often to the basket this year and seems more comfortable at it than he used to.

He is more of a three than Millsap, imo.

I might be wrong. I haven't seen that many games of him but I have a mancrush on Larry Sanders.
I have been able to follow some games of the Bucks and Ilyasova looked very solid. I have been intrigued by his game and I believe that he could excel at the three in our system.
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He's driving more to the basket with pump fakes behind the arc but you gotta think he's doing it against PFs not SFs. He's making mismatches against % 80 of PFs in the league cause he's fast, quick, knows how to move without the ball, perfect shooter and other PFs can not chase him all the time after screens. His disadvantage is not being able to defend bangers under the rim like Griffin, Gasol, Josh Smith etc but still he's so brave and stubborn to play against them and make the opponent pay it on the other side with his style. With a C like Sanders, he feels more comfortable to risk some positions like defending the posting up opponents by passing in front of them or reading the passing channels to steal because Sanders can reach everywhere and block and clog the paint. If he were playing for the jazz, 15 8 is guarantee with some charges taken.
 
GVC said:
Engaging Dalamon is roughly equivalent to engaging dutchjazzer. What's the ****ing point?
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Lol wut.



Please explain to me how Hayward's lack of consistent minutes has led to his lack of physical strength, and consistent play. Until then, keep up the moody bitching for the sake of the board lulz.
 
NAOS said:
Dear George,

So it sounds like your theory for Hay's reduced minutes this year goes something like this, "because we have a lot of other players we scraped off the heap, and they obviously need minutes." Well, it remains true that Hay could be averaging about 10 more min a game, and be having a greater positive impact than the minute sharing mess that has unfolded instead. It's not all about youth and the new page; it is also about performance plain-and-simple.

Now, let's apply these same principles to our nuclear sub: Favors.....................
What's he up to these days? Like, 22 min/game? Wowzers

I liked the spot where you seemed to imply that Jefferson was determining the broken form of our offense. Let's also talk more about this....................
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No, my theory is that Ty has devised an offense revolving around Al Jefferson, and it is necessary to give a player like Foye decent burn for floor-spacing reasons.


Lemme make a few points:


1) Would Hayward playing 10 more minutes in our current offense really have a huge impact on our offense?

2) This is not about minute sharing-- this is about Ty trying to find the right players to surround his main offensive weapon, Al Jefferson. When Hayward started off his shooting cold this season, he was moved to the bench. He found his touch again, and now he is being inserted into the starting lineup. Pretty simple stuff.

3) I never said anything about Favors. Either way, I would be much more adamant about Favors complaints if he could learn not to foul out and turn the ball over 3 times in those limited minutes. This argument was about Gordon not getting consistent minutes.

4) At this point in the season, I think it would be best if we split paths with Al-fense. Unfortunately, in order to make this transition strong, we gotta find a good PG to replace him. *cough* Trey Burke *cough*. Again, re-read my posts. I am not saying that Foye got more burn than Hayward earlier in the season because he is a better player-- his shooting was simply lights out when haywards wasn't, and his play suited Al Jefferson's.
 
GVC said:
No, not really.

Pretty much.

I do.
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...I think we've found the point where your shtick merges imperceptibly with that of Jazzspazz...

Gay Vegan Communist Bishop
Joseph+Stalin%252C+1949.jpg
 
Sandy Braille said:
1) Would Hayward playing 10 more minutes in our current offense really have a huge impact on our offense?

2) This is not about minute sharing-- this is about Ty trying to find the right players to surround his main offensive weapon, Al Jefferson. When Hayward started off his shooting cold this season, he was moved to the bench. He found his touch again, and now he is being inserted into the starting lineup. Pretty simple stuff.
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Pretty simple if you don't actually look at the relevant statistics or consider anything other than 3-pt shooting.

Hayward found his shot early in December, yet Foye was still averaging more minutes per game than Hayward through the end of February (27.5 v 27.1 per basketball-reference.com). This despite Foye bringing very little outside of shooting to the table.

Beyond that, Hayward has been a much more effective spot-up 3-pt shooter than Foye this year, shooting 48% on spot-up 3-pointers to Foye's 41.7% (per mysynergysports.com).

With that said, I'm glad Hayward came off the bench, and got a lot of his minutes with the other young players. Giving him 5 of Foye's minutes, however, would almost certainly have had a positive effect on wins-losses (because of the other things he brings to the table).

Keep channeling Cy. He's been slowly pulling his head out of his contrarian ***, and we need someone to pick up the slack.
 
koala said:
What I love about Hayward's game is that even on a bad bad shooting night like vs the Nets, he still has enough in his locker to make a positive impact on the game and the team (6asts, 3stls, 3blks). Off shooting nights happen, but the fact that he can still make a valuable contribution when he has had a subpar offensive night gives me confidence he can be an allstar calibre player for many years to come.

Hayward's game may not be appreciated by casual fans, but I can not see how anyone who follows the game closesly not be a fan of Gordon. It doesn't surprise me how so many coaches, players and ex-players rate his game so highly.
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This.

This is also the reason Foye and Al should not be retained. When their shots aren't falling, they do little else to help the team win.

On most nights, you'll have at least a couple players whose shots are falling. Having a team full of guys who are focused on contributing however they can (Carroll, Favors, Hayward, Kanter, even Millsap) leads to wins. Yes, you need a couple guys who can get you buckets consistently, but you're not winning anything with overpaid, one-dimensional players.
 
GVC said:
Pretty simple if you don't actually look at the relevant statistics or consider anything other than 3-pt shooting.

Hayward found his shot early in December, yet Foye was still averaging more minutes per game than Hayward through the end of February (27.5 v 27.1 per basketball-reference.com). This despite Foye bringing very little outside of shooting to the table.

Beyond that, Hayward has been a much more effective spot-up 3-pt shooter than Foye this year, shooting 48% on spot-up 3-pointers to Foye's 41.7% (per mysynergysports.com).

With that said, I'm glad Hayward came off the bench, and got a lot of his minutes with the other young players. Giving him 5 of Foye's minutes, however, would almost certainly have had a positive effect on wins-losses (because of the other things he brings to the table).

Keep channeling Cy. He's been slowly pulling his head out of his contrarian ***, and we need someone to pick up the slack.
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I think the truth lies between what me and you are saying.


Hayward was sent to the bench because of his poor shooting. I think we can both agree on that.


The reason he was KEPT on the bench was because of his much-improved play, as well as allowing him to utilize more of his skills effectively, and perhaps give him a lot of experience running an offense, or plays like the pick and roll. Excellent roster choice by Tyrone Corbin (one of few this season, admittedly). In the meantime, you had a one-dimensional shooter in Foye that still did an okay job playing off of Al for whatever that 2-3 month stretch of hot shooting was. So it was best of both worlds for Corbin.

I'm not sure why you're trying to tell me that Hayward is better than Foye. Well no ****ing **** he is. I never said he wasn't. All I said, was that he was sent to the bench because of his play back then not suiting Alfense, regained his form, and stayed on the bench due to his stellar play. Him getting more minutes with the starters wouldn't be as profound as an impact as you think. I believe that is where we disagree.



GVC said:
This.

This is also the reason Foye and Al should not be retained. When their shots aren't falling, they do little else to help the team win.

On most nights, you'll have at least a couple players whose shots are falling. Having a team full of guys who are focused on contributing however they can (Carroll, Favors, Hayward, Kanter, even Millsap) leads to wins. Yes, you need a couple guys who can get you buckets consistently, but you're not winning anything with overpaid, one-dimensional players.
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Did I ever say anything that goes against this? I completely agree. I don't think you could find a single post that says Al should be retained past this offseason. Not to mention the fact that Gordon Hayward is easily my favourite player on this Jazz team, and the NBA in general.
Foye could be retained, if his role changed. At this point in time, he only gets this many minutes because of how he compliments Al. If Al is sent off, and Foye stays with the team while averaging ~20mpg, I would have no problem with it.
 
Again, this whole argument started off with someone saying that Hayward is weak and inconsistent due to his lack of playing time administered by Ty.

Not a single poster has emerged with valid proof to support this claim.


The Jazz organization has done a stellar job of grooming Hayward from the last 2 months of his rookie season-onwards.

I think we could focus our complaints of consistent playing time MUCH more towards other youthful players currently on this roster.
 
GVC said:
Hayward found his shot early in December, yet Foye was still averaging more minutes per game than Hayward through the end of February (27.5 v 27.1 per basketball-reference.com).
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Here are their stats for December - February:

Foye
41 games
28.5 mpg
11.8 ppg
1.6 rpg
2.3 apg
0.9 spg
0.3 bpg
1.3 TO
2.2 PF
.406 FG
.401 3PT
.814 FT (2.1 FTA/g)
.553 TS


Gordo
31 games
26.5 mpg
14.4 ppg
2.9 rpg
2.8 apg
0.6 spg
0.6 bpg
1.7 TO
1.7 PF
.442 FG
.457 3PT
.836 FT (4.7 FTA/g)
.582 TS
 
Sandy Braille said:
Again, this whole argument started off with someone saying that Hayward is weak and inconsistent due to his lack of playing time administered by Ty.
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Maybe you missed it, but we've all been focusing on your first sentence in this thread. In case you forgot:

Sandy Braille said:
Hayward needs more playing time?!?!? Hahahahahahah!!!!!
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Coming off the bench was not the issue, playing time was and is. Hayward found his shot early in December, but Foye continued to get more playing time than Gordon for a couple months. Hayward should have been getting more minutes earlier, regardless of whether he was starting or coming off the bench.
 
GVC said:
Here are their stats for December - February:

Foye
41 games
28.5 mpg
11.8 ppg
1.6 rpg
2.3 apg
0.9 spg
0.3 bpg
1.3 TO
2.2 PF
.406 FG
.401 3PT
.814 FT (2.1 FTA/g)
.553 TS


Gordo
31 games
26.5 mpg
14.4 ppg
2.9 rpg
2.8 apg
0.6 spg
0.6 bpg
1.7 TO
1.7 PF
.442 FG
.457 3PT
.836 FT (4.7 FTA/g)
.582 TS
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I think it would make much more sense to be complaining about giving Foye's minutes to Burke, than to Hayward.
 
GVC said:
Maybe you missed it, but we've all been focusing on your first sentence in this thread. In case you forgot:

Coming off the bench was not the issue, playing time was and is. Hayward found his shot early in December, but Foye continued to get more playing time than Gordon for a couple months. Hayward should have been getting more minutes earlier, regardless of whether he was starting or coming off the bench.
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Maybe you missed it, the reason I made that post was because someone said Gordon Hayward needed more playing time to develop strength and consistency.


Reading Comprehension 101.
 
Sandy Braille said:
I think it would make much more sense to be complaining about giving Foye's minutes to Burke, than to Hayward.
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Last I checked:

1. This thread is about Gordon Hayward.

2. Gordon Hayward is a better player than Alec Burks.

3. Giving Hayward more minutes and giving Burks more minutes are not mutually exclusive.


It's probably time for you to bow out of this thread before you make an even bigger *** of yourself. Maybe find a hobby more in line with your intellect. I hear huffing glue is fun.
 
Sandy Braille said:
Him getting more minutes with the starters wouldn't be as profound as an impact as you think.
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How profound does the impact have to be? Couldn't/wouldn't the combined impact of correcting a slew of easily correctable small problems be fairly significant? Do you think it makes sense that Foye got more minutes than Gordo through the first 4 full months of the season?
 
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