US Pulling Out of Paris Climate Accord

[♪alt13]

Don't roll your eyes at me. Your inflation mumbo jumbo makes no sense. The only way that this would cause inflation equal to the value of the payout is if it was fully funded by increasing the money supply. As long as it is funded through taxation that doesn't happen.

 

[franklin]

Don't roll your eyes at me. Your inflation mumbo jumbo makes no sense. The only way that this would cause inflation equal to the value of the payout is if it was fully funded by increasing the money supply. As long as it is funded through taxation that doesn't happen.

Milton Friedman was wrong about money supply being the sole correlation to overall inflation (meaning not even demographic specific)("inflation is always a monetary phenomenon"). That has been well proven, mostly after the the Great Recession but several economists worked on it for plenty of years prior. Ben Bernanke, who I consider one of the greatest Americans ever, even pushed in essence for basically the same thing on a quantitative basis as what you are calling for.

You want to increase M? Okay, now decrease V. What does that do to the wealth effect when you have to? Is that going to bust another bubble? Probably.

My only point is that at the end of the day, giving people who need a free check a raise over current levels is going to do nothing more than increasing their COLA. They will compete to spend their dollars. That's the reason the republicans of old (not the single brain cell hyper Christian variety today) tried to institute programs like EITC that cut back on unintended consequences.

 

[Miggs]

I rent. And it's only fair to add that my situation is unique. I work for my father, rent from him ($900/month) which is slightly below average for our area, and I will be getting shares in his LLC within the next few years. But still? It is possible to raise a family well on a low income.

Do you pay utilities?

 

[Siro]

A couple of thoughts on UBI and inflation.

UBI redistributes money in 2 ways. First, directly through taxing the rich and giving the money to the rest. Second, it creates more wage competition between employers for needed workers who might not be inclined to do a tedious job for little money otherwise.

So we should expect to see SOME inflation. Some of the money at the top is used very differently than how it is used by the vast majority. Rich people do not spend all, or even a large chunk, of their income on basic expenses and consumer goods. The price of luxury goods should be unaffected because those who can afford it will still afford it just as easily. But price for consumer goods and basic living expenses should rise. We should see higher prices for food, clothing, housing, and consumer tech
(given the larger pile in the middle). It would not completely off-set the UBI check, but it should offset some of it.

I don't know how much inflation we should expect. I'd like to see how economists address the issue. Nonetheless, something needs to be done about the move toward automation, as this time the trend will not follow what has historically happened with new technology creating more opportunity than it displaces.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

None. Every adult receives it.

Seems like there should be some cut off of some sort.

 

[Siro]

Seems like there should be some cut off of some sort.

No. the whole point is that everyone gets it. No conditions. No litmus test. Nothing. I don't even like using age as a cut-off.

Either way, let's say the cutoff is 200k. That's what? 1% of the population? It wouldn't make much of a difference to the cost of the plan.

 

[Beantown]

that's good news then!


lets assume for a second that this fairy tale about catastrophic man made climate change is real! seems like we do not need the government then!
because the free market always goes for more potential!

i mean if you believe coal is the way to go, your choice. you will make money now but you gotta invest in the future! ! people who want to make money will then go to clean energy industry and make their money their!

that's just simple economics!

so let the paris climate accord **** off!


their nis a built in incentive! no need to rob taxpayer sof the money! or ram globalism down my throat

So why are you not pushing to stop fossil fuel subsidies?

What do you think Trump means when he says he wants to "RE-INVEST" in coal?

All energy is subsidized you dumb ****. We've already had this discussion.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

No. the whole point is that everyone gets it. No conditions. No litmus test. Nothing. I don't even like using age as a cut-off.

Either way, let's say the cutoff is 200k. That's what? 1% of the population? It wouldn't make much of a difference to the cost of the plan.

Well that's about 3,000,000 people and at $18,000 per person, that is about 54,000,000,000. That's a lot of money to give to people who dont really need it.

 

[LogGrad98]

Well that's about 3,000,000 people and at $18,000 per person, that is about 54,000,000,000. That's a lot of money to give to people who dont really need it.

How do you define need in any meaningful way in this regard? I make under the 200k level (as might be proposed) but not too much under and I could absolutely use another 18k. My daughter is getting married in July. I have 4 kids to put through college. I need a new car. I have plans and could use some help in retirement. How exactly got defined need makes a huge difference in this topic when you're talking about limiting it.

 

[babe]

still will lead to slavery of the humans! under a world government that is not chosen and cant be fought!

well, not exactly.

what will lead to slavery or a servile and impoverished populace is the mass indoctrination of Big Bird/Sesame Street and public "education" controlled by the guvmint.

Ordinary people can always take control back from their managers if the mainstream media loses credibility. guns or no guns.

Freedom or liberty, in the manner of The American Experience, still persists in some aspects, where ever there is some kind of a frontier of opportunity that the government has not securely shut down.

Just passing out money to unemployed folks and letting the robots provide the necessities of life is a sterile vision of the future that presumes there in nothing else worthwhile to invent, do, or create.

It is sometimes need that drives invention, and if we have no "need" and don't roll outta bed and go to work with our abilities, talents, and creativity, we have lost an essential element of our humanity.

 

[♪alt13]

A couple of thoughts on UBI and inflation.

UBI redistributes money in 2 ways. First, directly through taxing the rich and giving the money to the rest. Second, it creates more wage competition between employers for needed workers who might not be inclined to do a tedious job for little money otherwise.

So we should expect to see SOME inflation. Some of the money at the top is used very differently than how it is used by the vast majority. Rich people do not spend all, or even a large chunk, of their income on basic expenses and consumer goods. The price of luxury goods should be unaffected because those who can afford it will still afford it just as easily. But price for consumer goods and basic living expenses should rise. We should see higher prices for food, clothing, housing, and consumer tech
(given the larger pile in the middle). It would not completely off-set the UBI check, but it should offset some of it.

I don't know how much inflation we should expect. I'd like to see how economists address the issue. Nonetheless, something needs to be done about the move toward automation, as this time the trend will not follow what has historically happened with new technology creating more opportunity than it displaces.

The inflation would be mostly temporary. There would be long term inflation for some services for which you need a human being in America but food inflation and for consumer goods would be short lived. Increased consumption will "demand" an increase in production. We saw this recently in mining and gas. Both deal in non renewable resources still the increased demand from China has already been absorbed by increased production and the inflation of those prices caused by the new demand has largely vanished. In some cases(iron ore)overproduction has drastically decreased prices.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

How do you define need in any meaningful way in this regard? I make under the 200k level (as might be proposed) but not too much under and I could absolutely use another 18k. My daughter is getting married in July. I have 4 kids to put through college. I need a new car. I have plans and could use some help in retirement. How exactly got defined need makes a huge difference in this topic when you're talking about limiting it.

The goal of the 18K is to help people who cant get jobs because of automation or people who have poverty line paying jobs not be broke, right? I dont think it should be for the upper-middle class who are able to support themselves.