What's new

Utah Reps call for Constitutional Convention

  • Thread starter Thread starter Deleted member 365
  • Start date Start date
Eureka! It was because of the silly action I pulled before I realized (<---just today) you were an all powerful moderator isn't it?

Don't even know what "silly action" you're referring to. I didn't dignify your initial question with a response because I refuse to acknowledge you have "ideas." Seems you just copy-paste whatever ridiculous babble you've read today.

In this instance it appears you've simply repeated something you've been told while confusing the difference between "accumulated deficit" and "spent" and while papering over (and probably not even understanding) the difference between real and nominal dollars.
 
Don't even know what "silly action" you're referring to. I didn't dignify your initial question with a response because I refuse to acknowledge you have "ideas." Seems you just copy-paste whatever ridiculous babble you've read today.

In this instance it appears you've simply repeated something you've been told while confusing the difference between "accumulated deficit" and "spent" and while papering over (and probably not even understanding) the difference between real and nominal dollars.

Please fill free to ignore my posts then.

My initial responses were to others anyway.
 
Please fill free to ignore my posts then.

In the alternative I will feel free to point out their ignorance until their quality improves.

To quote our resident hack-a-tron: "please delete your account and log out of your life."
 
In the alternative I will feel free to point out their ignorance until their quality improves.

To quote our resident hack-a-tron: "please delete your account and log out of your life."

LOL! I didn't realize Jazzfanz had quality control. You have a lot of work to do!
 
Just to be clear, are these negreps?
 
My original response was to this question by Thriller:

So how much debt can we pay within 19 years? Do you know? Did Jefferson know?

I'd like to talk to Jefferson about this "19" number as well as other details of his proposals.

Here is another quote from Jefferson:

At the time we were funding our national debt, we heard much about "a public debt being a public blessing"; that the stock representing it was a creation of active capital for the aliment of commerce; manufactures and aggriculture. This paradox was well adapted to the minds of believers in dreams...

Apparently I'm too damn stupid to figure out what all these terms mean. Anyone besides "believers in dreams" want to help me out with this?
 
The issue isn't so much having a debt that moves back toward zero. The problem is it's impractical to implement without something like an independent Federal Reserve setting spending policy, and that policy would have to come in line with the two main monetary tools the Fed controls (interest rates and capital requirements). Congress is too fixated on politics to get the spending anywhere close to correct.

Economists from Keynes to Friedman have tossed around ideas that would match Millsapa's sentiment. Keynes ideas have proven impractical as congress cannot control itself. I'm afraid any version of Friedman's ideas would require significant changes to the current structure.

Keynes ideas are like trying to dig yourself out of a hole.

The existence of a Fed sounds like the fundamental problem, at least from Jefferson's view:

Thomas Jefferson said:
The central bank is an institution of the most deadly hostility existing against the Principles and form of our Constitution. I am an Enemy to all banks discounting bills or notes for anything but Coin. If the American People allow private banks to control the issuance of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the People of all their Property until their Children will wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered.
 
Don't even know what "silly action" you're referring to. I didn't dignify your initial question with a response because I refuse to acknowledge you have "ideas." Seems you just copy-paste whatever ridiculous babble you've read today.

In this instance it appears you've simply repeated something you've been told while confusing the difference between "accumulated deficit" and "spent" and while papering over (and probably not even understanding) the difference between real and nominal dollars.

Wow, kicky, you're really going over-the-top ******* on this one huh? I've found Millsapa to be quite genuine where others have lashed out a little extra reactionary like you appear to have. I also think it's a Hopper reincarnation and maybe you suspect the same...

Keynes ideas are like trying to dig yourself out of a hole.

So some from a certain crowd say to no end. This depends on your theory of money, I guess.

The existence of a Fed sounds like the fundamental problem, at least from Jefferson's view:

There are other founding fathers, but you obviously have a preference for Jefferson. Read up on Ben Franklin's ideas on paper money and you may alter your position a little (he made a living printing dollars for Pennsylvania and other governments of the time).

I'll give you the same opportunity I've given others (who've refused the offer to get into any actual substance), to wit: What alternative mechanism of exchange do you propose?
 
Wow, kicky, you're really going over-the-top ******* on this one huh? I've found Millsapa to be quite genuine where others have lashed out a little extra reactionary like you appear to have. I also think it's a Hopper reincarnation and maybe you suspect the same...

Based on his false assumptions I can see why he might lack respect for me. Respect is the only way a junto is effective.
I didn't make myself clear in my attempt to keep the conversation simple, and once he misunderstood me I thought it was pointless to correct him.
He appears to have no patience with those he considers beneath him. That's all good. His self-title is a big clue to this.

So some from a certain crowd say to no end. This depends on your theory of money, I guess.

Yes, there are two main schools of thought. Sorry, I didn't realize that saying was overused. The logic of spreading future tax dollars around in an effort to spur the economy never made sense to me because you are taking it out of the market to begin with. The most it could ever result in is a zero sum game.

There are other founding fathers, but you obviously have a preference for Jefferson. Read up on Ben Franklin's ideas on paper money and you may alter your position a little (he made a living printing dollars for Pennsylvania and other governments of the time).

I'll give you the same opportunity I've given others (who've refused the offer to get into any actual substance), to wit: What alternative mechanism of exchange do you propose?

I will try my best to diversify to other Founders. I just came upon Jefferson's ideas on the topic first. Do you think maybe Franklin's views on money are a result of conflict of interest with printing it? LOL!
I'd love to be able to address the alternative mechanism at length, but I am a stupid *** when it comes to this topic. Here is my attempt:

Apparently 3 presidents tried to change the monetary system. Jefferson, Jackson, and Lincoln. The idea was that "congress would issue its own money and banks would be required to loan on existing assets rather than use fictitious money based on merely a fraction of their assets." So my understanding is that when you eliminate "fractional banking" you eliminate the boom bust cycle that we have now, and if you eliminate the bust cycles then there is no "need" for deficit spending...and rack up debt. Am I off base? I've obviously left out other factors for simplicity sake.
 
Yes, there are two main schools of thought. Sorry, I didn't realize that saying was overused. The logic of spreading future tax dollars around in an effort to spur the economy never made sense to me because you are taking it out of the market to begin with. The most it could ever result in is a zero sum game.

Your theory on money is too narrow, and comes off as overly influenced by the Mises crowd (not actual Austrian economists).

Apparently 3 presidents tried to change the monetary system. Jefferson, Jackson, and Lincoln. The idea was that "congress would issue its own money and banks would be required to loan on existing assets rather than use fictitious money based on merely a fraction of their assets." So my understanding is that when you eliminate "fractional banking" you eliminate the boom bust cycle that we have now, and if you eliminate the bust cycles then there is no "need" for deficit spending...and rack up debt. Am I off base? I've obviously left out other factors for simplicity sake.

A widely believed myth. There has been fractional banking since before the birth of the country. The Federal Reserve didn't bring it. The business cycle predates fractional banking by thousands of years. The cycle is inevitable, and was just as bad or worse before the creation of the Federal Reserve. There were many depressions before and only one since. We attempt to minimize it, and, we'll call them the Ron Paul crowd, wrongly blames the cycle on government. Sure government can compound or reduce the sway, but it doesn't cause the cycle.

Truth be told, "sound money" still employs the fractional reserve mechanism anytime any loan is made, whether the loan is in gold, cattle, land, or anything else. Think about this: you loan your neighbor a gold coin, she invests it in a new parlor dress for her prostitutin' bidniss, the taylor then loans it to a drunk. Two loans are outstanding from one gold coin. It's all fractional, man.

Fractional banking creates and destroys money. If we didn't have this mechanism then the government would have to get money into circulation another way. Saying "sound money" sounds nice, but it's a baseless concept with not much thought behind it. Our money is a medium of exchange. The value comes from the economic powerhouse that backs it. It's given further validity through taxing power. I'll take this system over gold any day. All gold does is get thrown in a vault and worshiped, where it does nothing to better humanity. Money is used for the benefit of all. Gold is an idol, and I'd be happier if all the world's reserves were dumped into Eyjafjallajokull.
 
Wow, kicky, you're really going over-the-top ******* on this one huh? I've found Millsapa to be quite genuine where others have lashed out a little extra reactionary like you appear to have.

You think she's genuine. I think she's outrageously underinformed. We can split the difference and say she's genuinely underinformed.

As a general rule, I have low tolerance for those who know very little about complicated systems and ideas while simultaneously espousing lofty rhetoric about the way things ought to be. Milsapa generates content along both trends in high volume. The Thomas Jefferson quotes are nigh insufferable because they're treated like gospel.

I also think it's a Hopper reincarnation and maybe you suspect the same...

I don't think so.
 
Back
Top