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Utah Reps call for Constitutional Convention

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Sirkickyass said:
I'm not certain you understand the concept of slavery.
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Oh wow, you've lowered yourself to respond to one of your inferiors, or is this just quality control? LOL

To some slavery was a matter of economics. How they treated the "ignorant and inferior" people they had control over was a different matter.

I see no difference between dependence on landowners and dependence on government for ones needs.
 
Millsapa said:
Oh wow, you've lowered yourself to respond to one of your inferiors, or is this just quality control? LOL

To some slavery was a matter of economics. How they treated the "ignorant and inferior" people they had control over was a different matter.

I see no difference between dependence on landowners and dependence on government for ones needs.
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Ladies and Gentleman: Millsapa.
 
franklin said:
There has been fractional banking since before the birth of the country. The Federal Reserve didn't bring it. The business cycle predates fractional banking by thousands of years. The cycle is inevitable, and was just as bad or worse before the creation of the Federal Reserve. There were many depressions before and only one since. We attempt to minimize it, and, we'll call them the Ron Paul crowd, wrongly blames the cycle on government. Sure government can compound or reduce the sway, but it doesn't cause the cycle.

Truth be told, "sound money" still employs the fractional reserve mechanism anytime any loan is made, whether the loan is in gold, cattle, land, or anything else. Think about this: you loan your neighbor a gold coin, she invests it in a new parlor dress for her prostitutin' bidniss, the taylor then loans it to a drunk. Two loans are outstanding from one gold coin. It's all fractional, man.

Fractional banking creates and destroys money. If we didn't have this mechanism then the government would have to get money into circulation another way. Saying "sound money" sounds nice, but it's a baseless concept with not much thought behind it. Our money is a medium of exchange. The value comes from the economic powerhouse that backs it. It's given further validity through taxing power. I'll take this system over gold any day. All gold does is get thrown in a vault and worshiped, where it does nothing to better humanity. Money is used for the benefit of all. Gold is an idol, and I'd be happier if all the world's reserves were dumped into Eyjafjallajokull.
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Interesting ideas. May I interject a couple of points.
1. Governments/central banks may not be able to prevent downturns in the business cycle, but through their intervention, they can certainly make it worse. They can create a climate of uncertainty so that investors will be unwilling to invest.
2. The advantage of a commodity-backed monetary system is specifically that governments can't create gold or silver out of thin air. From 1798 until 1912, a dollar, as well as an ounce of gold, retained pretty much the same value (although there were some variations in-between). Since the creation of the Federal Reserve and the abandonment of the gold standard, your dollar today is worth about $0.02. Government love inflation; a commodity backed currency puts severe limits on their ability to inflate the money supply.
 
The Thriller said:
100 congresses ago, people could live off less than $1000 dollars per year.

You're bringing up some weak arguments.

Basically, you're saying that paying Deron x amount of money right now is worrisome since Stockton didn't make in his career what Deron is in just this year alone.
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I; know I'm late to the party here but back in the day a $20 bill could be exchanged for an ounce of gold. Could you, today, live on 50 ounces of gold for a year (current gold price at $1,400 per ounce)?
 
Below are the top 10 largest holders of U.S. debt as of the end of October.

-- China, mainland: $906.8 billion

-- Japan: $877.4 billion

-- United Kingdom: $477.6 billion*

-- Oil exporters, which include Ecuador, Venezuela, Indonesia, Bahrain, Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, Algeria, Gabon, Libya, and Nigeria: $213.9 billion.

-- Brazil: $177.6 billion

-- Hong Kong: $139.2 billion

-- Caribbean banking centers, which include Bahamas, Bermuda, Cayman Islands, Netherlands Antilles and Panama: $133.7 billion

-- Russia: $131.6 billion

-- Taiwan: $131.2 billion

-- Canada: $125.2 billion

* UK figure may include government debt bought by other countries through London intermediaries

Source: Treasury Department

https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE70919N20110110
 
If our debt becomes worthless what are the options of the country that holds the most?

1. War
2. Hand over the keys
3. ?
 
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