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Utah Trade Deadline Discussion

♪alt13 said:
If you really want the Brooklyn pick it's a simple thing to get. Rudy Gobert or Donovan Mitchell. If you're not willing to part with either of those guys you can forget about the Brooklyn pick. Seriously there's really no reason to talk about the Brooklyn pick the Jazz aren't getting it.
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I'm not sure it's that simple. As I said, hanging on to the pick would be the right long-term decision for CLE & their GM has shown to be competent thus far but they are in a tricky situation.

Unless the FO is operating under the assumption that LBJ is gone regardless & they are set on keeping the pick, I think they would have to at least consider moving it (currently #8) to bring in a big who fills a need & a young upgrade at SG who are both capable of giving the team a much need shot in the arm (while Hood could potentially be a long-term piece) + a late 1st while simultaneously ridding their payroll of a bad long-term contract (which may hold value to them if they intend to re-sign IT).

LBJ has seemingly backed them into a corner & I don't think it's a certainty that they don't ultimately succumb to the pressure & end up making a short-sighted move in an attempt to appease him. If he were to walk, barring a complete 3-5 year rebuild/tear down, they could easily wind up as a "treadmill" team unless they strike gold with the BKN pick.
 
karl malone said:
I'm not sure it's that simple. As I said, hanging on to the pick would be the right long-term decision for CLE & their GM has shown to be competent thus far but they are in a tricky situation.

Unless the FO is operating under the assumption that LBJ is gone regardless & they are set on keeping the pick, I think they would have to at least consider moving it (currently #8) to bring in a big who fills a need & a young upgrade at SG who are both capable of giving the team a much need shot in the arm (while Hood could potentially be a long-term piece) + a late 1st while simultaneously ridding their payroll of a bad long-term contract (which may hold value to them if they intend to re-sign IT).

LBJ has seemingly backed them into a corner & I don't think it's a certainty that they don't ultimately succumb to the pressure & end up making a short-sighted move in an attempt to appease him. If he were to walk, barring a complete 3-5 year rebuild/tear down, they could easily wind up as a "treadmill" team unless they strike gold with the BKN pick.
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Even if they were to use the pick to make a short term move Utah would be outbid. For Hell sake Mirotic is already on the table for a first. What would the remaining 27 teams offer for that pick? Forget about the Brooklyn pick. It isn't happening.
 
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Cleveland can make some moves without giving up the BKN pick. They have their own first. Really, what they need to acknowledge is IT is a HUGE part of the problem. Moving Love back to the 4 with TT playing the 5 is a good decision. The problem is, how do they make the Hill trade work? I guess sending Shumpert and their 1st. Or find another team willing to take on Shumpert and the 1st.

Sacramento may just buy him out, so getting anything in a trade would be a good deal.
 
♪alt13 said:
Even if they were to use the pick to make a short term move Utah would be outbid. For Hell sake Mirotic is already on the table for a first. What would the remaining 27 teams offer for that pick? Forget about the Brooklyn pick. It isn't happening.
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I'm not claiming that it's likely but I do think it would be negligent to not at least inquire about the possibility. We may very likely be outbid if the pick is made available but I do think we are in a unique position to offer a combination of "win now" pieces that could help salvage a season quickly spiraling out of control, which I imagine is a necessity for them to have any shot at retaining LBJ, future potential building blocks (especially if we can acquire an additional late 1st or 2), & the opportunity to shed bad contract(s). I realize it's a long shot but it's one worth taking imo.
 
I don't think Cleveland has any chance at keeping Lebron. The GM made a huge mistake by trading Irving for a pick and a player with a career threatening injury. Did anyone really think IT would return as good as new? There were other offers, but it all came down to: "let's assume the LeBron to LA rumors are true." Now how best can we plan the rebuild?
 
Fournier > Hood

They are not the same. Fournier is a better shooter, better passer, better at scoring inside, he has a better PER, better, TS%, much better offensive rating, better Vorp, better Win Shares, and many other stats. Neither are good defenders.

Hood and Fournier get equal amounts of open and/or contested shots. So that is not an argument why Hood shoots worse. Hood does create for himself inside 17% more, and from 3 Hood creates for himself 10% more of the time. But even on both types of shots Fournier shoots better.

In Iso situations they are pretty similar, Hood shoots every so slightly better but Fournier gets to the foul line more.

Hood is a little better in Pick and Roll situations as the ball handler.

Fournier is a much better in spot up situations (which fits better with Mitch and the team) Fournier is in the 96th percentile(Mirotic BTW is 4th best in the league in spot up situations just behind cp3) in spot up situations, Hood is in the bottom half of the league at 47th percentile in those situation.

Fournier is a much better in cutting situations. Again Fournier is one of the best in the league in 82.2 percentile and Hood is 20th percentile.

Plus Fournier is locked up for 3 more years after this for 17 million. Maybe Hood gets less but that is a big risk. They are also the same age, so its not like we can expect Hood to develop more than him. Plus frankly I think Snyder could utilize Fournier better. This is also Hoods best year shooting and I am not sure he maintains that. Fournier has had multiple years shooting better.
 
Any reason for Cleveland not to do Favors for Shumpert and their own pick? It’s a win-now move plus a salary dump. I’d roll the dice on the possibility of Shumpert not wanting to be in Utah and opting out. If not, he’s a 2019 expiring so no biggie.
 
Anybody who thinks the Brooklyn pick is a "dollar" needs their head examined. A #10 pick is not a dollar. A star is a dollar. A really good player on a good deal is a dollar. A top 5 pick is a dollar.

The Brooklyk pick is overinflated due to how Cleveland got it. Its not a franchise changer. Heck, it might not even turn into a starter.

Sent from my VS995 using JazzFanz mobile app
 
Ron Mexico said:
Fournier > Hood

They are not the same. Fournier is a better shooter, better passer, better at scoring inside, he has a better PER, better, TS%, much better offensive rating, better Vorp, better Win Shares, and many other stats. Neither are good defenders.

Hood and Fournier get equal amounts of open and/or contested shots. So that is not an argument why Hood shoots worse. Hood does create for himself inside 17% more, and from 3 Hood creates for himself 10% more of the time. But even on both types of shots Fournier shoots better.

In Iso situations they are pretty similar, Hood shoots every so slightly better but Fournier gets to the foul line more.

Hood is a little better in Pick and Roll situations as the ball handler.

Fournier is a much better in spot up situations (which fits better with Mitch and the team) Fournier is in the 96th percentile(Mirotic BTW is 4th best in the league in spot up situations just behind cp3) in spot up situations, Hood is in the bottom half of the league at 47th percentile in those situation.

Fournier is a much better in cutting situations. Again Fournier is one of the best in the league in 82.2 percentile and Hood is 20th percentile.

Plus Fournier is locked up for 3 more years after this for 17 million. Maybe Hood gets less but that is a big risk. They are also the same age, so its not like we can expect Hood to develop more than him. Plus frankly I think Snyder could utilize Fournier better. This is also Hoods best year shooting and I am not sure he maintains that. Fournier has had multiple years shooting better.
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Yep.
 
Ron Mexico said:
Fournier > Hood

They are not the same. Fournier is a better shooter, better passer, better at scoring inside, he has a better PER, better, TS%, much better offensive rating, better Vorp, better Win Shares, and many other stats. Neither are good defenders.

Hood and Fournier get equal amounts of open and/or contested shots. So that is not an argument why Hood shoots worse. Hood does create for himself inside 17% more, and from 3 Hood creates for himself 10% more of the time. But even on both types of shots Fournier shoots better.

In Iso situations they are pretty similar, Hood shoots every so slightly better but Fournier gets to the foul line more.

Hood is a little better in Pick and Roll situations as the ball handler.

Fournier is a much better in spot up situations (which fits better with Mitch and the team) Fournier is in the 96th percentile(Mirotic BTW is 4th best in the league in spot up situations just behind cp3) in spot up situations, Hood is in the bottom half of the league at 47th percentile in those situation.

Fournier is a much better in cutting situations. Again Fournier is one of the best in the league in 82.2 percentile and Hood is 20th percentile.

Plus Fournier is locked up for 3 more years after this for 17 million. Maybe Hood gets less but that is a big risk. They are also the same age, so its not like we can expect Hood to develop more than him. Plus frankly I think Snyder could utilize Fournier better. This is also Hoods best year shooting and I am not sure he maintains that. Fournier has had multiple years shooting better.
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I have to say I agree. I think Fournier in this system is such a great fit offensively. I've already related my concerns about his health and contract, but to me he'd be quite a bit better than Hood (even if his raw box score stats aren't much better) even before considering that he is one of Rudy's better friends in the league. I'm just not sure on the salary and how that would impact the team being able to get to a championship level.
 
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