What's new
By:

Utah vs Philly vs Boston vs LA

green

green

Well-Known Member
Core4 called me out in another thread and asked me what I would do if I was Utah. So, here is what the Big 3 have done (market wise they are the big three), what Utah has done, and what I would have done.

Coaches:

Utah: Ty Corbin - Terrible coach, everyone knows it, has the Sloan mentality. The Jazz kept him on, in his final year, where he has to protect his resume (i.e., win) knowing he won't be here next year.
Philly: At the end of last season, Collins stepped down, as Philly prepared for the tank. Philly went out and hired a solid hire, Brown from San Antonio. Why is San Antonio important? If any coach understands the power of a well timed tank, it is a coach from San Antonio. Nothing like getting a Tim Duncan to make a coach look good. He understands the importance of improving players WHILE LOSING, unlike Corbin.
Boston: Goes out and get Brad Stevens. Again, a young, smart coach who understands that losing one year and getting a transformational player will help you look like a great coach more than 30 wins (vs 20 wins) in your first season.
LA: They joined the tank late. D'Antonio is still there, but he isn't a very good coach anyways.

Summary: Philly and Boston took tanking seriously. They made move with their coaches to solidify this.

What I would have done:

I would have fired Corbin last season after the All-Star break and promoted Hornacek to interm-HC. I would have made a push for the playoffs, made the playoffs, then sat down with Horny at the end of the season. I would have let him know that we were tanking and ask him if he was ok with that. If he was, I would have given him a three year deal that automatically renews if he hits certain goals AFTER HIS SECOND SEASON. The first season would be a complete mulligan. If Horny refused, I would have gone after Stevens or Brown.
 
Next phase: Pre-Season moves:

Philly: Traded Jrue Holliday for Noel and a 2014 first round pick. Drafted Michael Carter Williams. GREAT moves. They moved a good PG for a top prospect and a pick in 2014. Also guaranteed more losses with this move.
Boston: Traded Garnett, Pierce and Terry to Brooklyn. Again, cleared anyone who wasn't all in with the tank was out.
LA: Made moves to make a playoff run.
Utah: Let Millsap, Jefferson, and a slew of other "vets" walk for nothing. Traded for Jefferson and Biedrens for two future unprotected firsts. Signed Favors to an extension for market value, didn't overpay Hayward.

What I would have done:

Exactly what Utah did. Except I would have fired Corbin. They started the tank off so well.
 
I wished we had Hornacek, and I wished we were tanking (since Kanter and Burks are coming off the bench, Gobert is getting DNPs, Neto didn't come over, and Clark doesn't play), but I think you have to see that Hornacek and tanking are incompatible. The Suns were expected to be worse than we are this year. They acquired a bunch of picks in previous years, and then the Gortat trade, expecting to suck this year and then cake it up in the 14 draft and rebuild from there, but that wasn't in the plans for Horny. Horny would have coached the Jazz to the 8th seed. He never would have agreed to a tank job--he's a competitor.
 
And how would firing Corbin help the tank? If, as you say, he is a horrible coach, doesn't that help the tank? Do you think ANYONE would agree to coach the Jazz if they were told to lose on purpose? Mark Jackson: I remain convinced he is the ONLY coach who has intentionally and openly tanked for half a season.

Brad Stevens/Boston: good, young coach. Trying to win with the roster he has. 4-3 in their last 7, including taking Phoenix to the wire. That is not a demonstration of being "all-in" with their supposed tank.

Hornacek/Phoenix: Phoenix was SUPPOSED to be bad. They traded away vets. And he's taken that team to the playoffs. Do you think he would have agreed to win only 15-20 games with Utah (and to do that, lose on purpose)? You are CRAZY!

Lakers: An unintentional tank. At least we agree on this one. Kobe was supposed to return. Gasol and Nash were supposed to play. If it weren't the Lakers we're talking about, I could feel sorry for all their injuries.

Milwaukee: A bad team with the Sanders lunacy turning it into a complete train wreck. Short of switching rosters with the Idaho Stampede, there was no way to out-tank the Bucks.

Sixers: We also agree on this one. Philly went all-in on the tank. Traded for the injured Noel. Now have traded away Hawes and Turner. Fantastic execution of the tanking model.

Utah started the tanking off so well because the schedule was absoultely BRUTAL!
1. Five home games: OKC, Hou, NO, Den, SA, GS. 1-5 with win over New Orleans and 3-pt loss to OKC. 2-4 was probably expected with that schedule (win over NO and Denver?).
2. Nine away games
3. New starters in Favors, Kanter and Jefferson
4. No PG (Burke hurt)
5. Weaker bench (Williams and Evans also hurt)

Had Burke, Williams and Evans been healthy, maybe the Jazz win 4-5 games. And then the expectations are reasonable as we start talking about staying in the top-10, not wetting ourselves with talk over Wiggins or Parker being the Jazz' selection with the top pick.
 
Last edited:
maury-you-are-not-the-father-o.gif



dbPknCL.gif
 
Last edited:
Core4 said:
And how would firing Corbin help the tank? If, as you say, he is a horrible coach, doesn't that help the tank? Do you think ANYONE would agree to coach the Jazz if they were told to lose on purpose? Mark Jackson: I remain convinced he is the ONLY coach who has intentionally and openly tanked for half a season.
Click to expand...

The problem is, Utah kept Corbin on as a lame duck coach. He knows he is gone after this season, everyone knows he is gone after this season. Because of this, he HAS to win if he ever wants to be a HC again.

That's the difference between Stevens, Brown and Corbin. Stevens and Brown know that their clock doesn't begin until next season. They have things they want to work on, and do, but winning isn't one of them. Their expectations were clear: LOSE. Get a top player. WIN. Corbin can't do that.
 
Sexual Favors said:
I wished we had Hornacek, and I wished we were tanking (since Kanter and Burks are coming off the bench, Gobert is getting DNPs, Neto didn't come over, and Clark doesn't play), but I think you have to see that Hornacek and tanking are incompatible. The Suns were expected to be worse than we are this year. They acquired a bunch of picks in previous years, and then the Gortat trade, expecting to suck this year and then cake it up in the 14 draft and rebuild from there, but that wasn't in the plans for Horny. Horny would have coached the Jazz to the 8th seed. He never would have agreed to a tank job--he's a competitor.
Click to expand...

That's fine. That's why I said talk to Horny. If he is okay with tank, keep him. If not, move on. The great thing about Brown as a coach is he saw FIRST HAND how tanking helps a team. He understands and can see the long term outcome from sucking it up and getting a player like Wiggins or Jabari.

If Horny can't see that, that's ok. Most people can't seem to step over a nickel to grab a dollar. Move on to someone who understands this principle.
 
Core4 said:
And how would firing Corbin help the tank? If, as you say, he is a horrible coach, doesn't that help the tank? Do you think ANYONE would agree to coach the Jazz if they were told to lose on purpose? Mark Jackson: I remain convinced he is the ONLY coach who has intentionally and openly tanked for half a season.

Brad Stevens/Boston: good, young coach. Trying to win with the roster he has. 4-3 in their last 7, including taking Phoenix to the wire. That is not a demonstration of being "all-in" with their supposed tank.

Hornacek/Phoenix: Phoenix was SUPPOSED to be bad. They traded away vets. And he's taken that team to the playoffs. Do you think he would have agreed to win only 15-20 games with Utah (and to do that, lose on purpose)? You are CRAZY!

Lakers: An unintentional tank. At least we agree on this one. Kobe was supposed to return. Gasol and Nash were supposed to play. If it weren't the Lakers we're talking about, I could feel sorry for all their injuries.

Milwaukee: A bad team with the Sanders lunacy turning it into a complete train wreck. Short of switching rosters with the Idaho Stampede, there was no way to out-tank the Bucks.

Sixers: We also agree on this one. Philly went all-in on the tank. Traded for the injured Noel. Now have traded away Hawes and Turner. Fantastic execution of the tanking model.

Utah started the tanking off so well because the schedule was absoultely BRUTAL!
1. Five home games: OKC, Hou, NO, Den, SA, GS. 1-5 with win over New Orleans and 3-pt loss to OKC. 2-4 was probably expected with that schedule (win over NO and Denver?).
2. Nine away games
3. New starters in Favors, Kanter and Jefferson
4. No PG (Burke hurt)
5. Weaker bench (Williams and Evans also hurt)

Had Burke, Williams and Evans been healthy, maybe the Jazz win 4-5 games. And then the expectations are reasonable as we start talking about staying in the top-10, not wetting ourselves with talk over Wiggins or Parker being the Jazz' selection with the top pick.
Click to expand...

Utah started off tanking so well for two reasons: Lucass III and Kanter.

Play those two big minutes and you will lose a TON of games. This is where keeping Corbin is a TERRIBLE idea. Corbin has to win. Utah wants to lose. If you have a coach who is on board with losing, then Kanter starts the whole season and Garrett never sees the floor.

That right there = 10 win season.
 
green said:
The problem is, Utah kept Corbin on as a lame duck coach. He knows he is gone after this season, everyone knows he is gone after this season. Because of this, he HAS to win if he ever wants to be a HC again.

That's the difference between Stevens, Brown and Corbin. Stevens and Brown know that their clock doesn't begin until next season. They have things they want to work on, and do, but winning isn't one of them. Their expectations were clear: LOSE. Get a top player. WIN. Corbin can't do that.
Click to expand...
What a crock of ****.

What makes you think Stevens and Brown aren't trying to win games? What are they "working on" (hints: Stevens is not playing his young players ahead of his vets; Brown hasn't had a single player over the age of 25 on his roster, and very little overall talent)? Have you even watched these teams play or are you pulling this completely out of your ***?
 
green said:
The great thing about Brown as a coach is he saw FIRST HAND how tanking helps a team.
Click to expand...
Not really. Spurs tanked in 96/97; Brown showed up part-time in 1999, and full-time only in 2002. He saw tanking first hand just as much as you did.
 
green said:
The problem is, Utah kept Corbin on as a lame duck coach. He knows he is gone after this season, everyone knows he is gone after this season. Because of this, he HAS to win if he ever wants to be a HC again.

That's the difference between Stevens, Brown and Corbin. Stevens and Brown know that their clock doesn't begin until next season. They have things they want to work on, and do, but winning isn't one of them. Their expectations were clear: LOSE. Get a top player. WIN. Corbin can't do that.
Click to expand...

Are you saying Horny would have instructed them to throw the ball out of bounds? Play John Lucas over Trey Burke? We both know thats hogwash. Tanking is done at the GM level, but I'm not really blaming DL, the Jazz simply have way more talent than a Milwaukee or Philly. He could have traded Marvin, but then Kanter and Evans just get more minutes, not a guaranteed drop off.
 
GVC said:
Not really. Spurs tanked in 96/97; Brown showed up part-time in 1999, and full-time only in 2002. He saw tanking first hand just as much as you did.
Click to expand...

Oh, jeez. Serious? Come on now. He spend over 10 years in the organization. You don't think he experienced first hand the benefits of tanking? You don't think he ever was around Tim Duncan? Come on now. He isn't stupid. He knows the reason why SA has been so successful is because they tanked. He didn't have to be there that year to realize that. lol.
 
green said:
Utah started off tanking so well for two reasons: Lucass III and Kanter.

Play those two big minutes and you will lose a TON of games. This is where keeping Corbin is a TERRIBLE idea. Corbin has to win. Utah wants to lose. If you have a coach who is on board with losing, then Kanter starts the whole season and Garrett never sees the floor.

That right there = 10 win season.
Click to expand...

Wow you are throwing Kanter into the mix?? How about having 3 of your top 8 players out with injury and having one of the worst pg rotations.
 
green said:
Utah started off tanking so well for two reasons: Lucass III and Kanter.

Play those two big minutes and you will lose a TON of games. This is where keeping Corbin is a TERRIBLE idea. Corbin has to win. Utah wants to lose. If you have a coach who is on board with losing, then Kanter starts the whole season and Garrett never sees the floor.

That right there = 10 win season.
Click to expand...

The Jazz started winning as soon as Burke became the starter. OK, so tell Burke he's on IR for the year and play Lucas and Tinsley. Keep playing great teams at home and have long road trips. Jazz definitely win 10-15, even with Corbin trying to win. Please tell me why Boston is 4-3 in February if Stevens has been told to lose. Sacramento is 3-5 with 4 of those losses coming on the road and the other a home loss to GS. They haven't been intentionally losing. Philly, Orlando, Milwaukee and LAkers are just plain bad or have so many injuries they can't compete. Have Phil Jackson coach any of those teams and MAYBE they win an extra couple of games. They're just that bad.
 
Hotttnickkk said:
I've been vocal about promoting Hornacek from the get go but nobody listened.
Click to expand...

You and half the board wanted Hornacek.
Hornacek probably increases the Jazz win total by 10 or so. I was for keeping Corbin because I knew our draft position would be bumped up a couple of notches. Hornacek had no head coaching experience and had barely been a bench coach for a couple of years. In many respects, his hiring was almost as risky as the Nets going with Kidd.

Unless a shocker happens (like Thibodeau being available and WANTING the job), I predict the next Jazz HC will come from someone already in the organization.
 
You know the problem with this? Green and company have pretty much guaranteed that whatever team finishes just behind us in the lottery order wins the whole thing. People WILL be held accountable. . .
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page
Back
Top