Utah's holding opponents to 92.8 ppg

[Game6Conley]

What matters is the amount of points the other team gets when they have the ball, not the amount of times they have ball.

So..... the Opponents PPG?!?!? lol

No it doesn't. If playing slow demoralizes the defense, then why are you willingly demoralizing your offense? That makes no sense. I could just as easily say that slow pace is bad for defense, because if the offensive team scores 2 or 3 times in a row it demoralizes the defense because it hasn't gotten a stop in a long time.

This is the part you're not getting. Even if they come out on the short end of the stick sometimes, there's value in this. Less possessions means more pressure to execute, which I'd argue is a good way to prime a team for the playoffs in the regular season..

Less offensive possessions increases the value of all peripheral stats, which also plays into Utah's hands.. as the team is built to be well above avg on the boards and getting blocks.


To me what you're arguing is that the Jazz have a conflicted identity. I don't see it that way, I see a bunch of aspects of the game working in concert with each other..


If the Jazz weren't Tied for 21st in 3pt % and 11th in 3pt attempts (which accounts for a bigger portion of the offense than most teams, due to the slower pace..) this wouldn't even be a point of discussion.

 

[fishonjazz]

disagree. I say playing slower adds to the attrition applied by the defense. there's a cumulative grinding effect and you can see it on the court sometimes. Here's 2 of the better examples;

last night somewhere in those 2nd and 3rd quarters where ATL combined for 25 points you could see them pressing and panicking, with demoralized body language, Dwight was scoreless and frankly looked old. Their announcers even suggested going to walk the dog because it was an old fashioned whooping. At one point Schroder knew nothing was working so he just put his head down and went to the rim a few times in a row and got blocked. They were totally disarmed.

You can't tell me that when the Jazz get ahead like vs ATL, that most opposing teams won't feel alittle extra pressure/aren't alittle more deflated knowing not only that the opposing defense is stout andthings aren't working offensively, but that the Jazz offense is going to limit the possessions/take the air out of the ball too..

This was also especially apparent in the Lakers win earlier in the season around the start of the 4th quarter mark. When teams begin to crumble and lose their composure, I believe that's in-part because of the cumulative effect of the pace.

Good post. I can see your point even if others cant.

 

[Boris]

Good post. I can see your point even if others cant.

Yeah but let us not pretend this is NFL keep the defense off the field strategy. NBA is two way players.

What PG_AB failed to point out is how good Utah Jazz are in transition. Hayward, Hood, Hill, Joe, Diaw, an Gobert trailer dunks. Pretty much every player can take it to the hole an is even doing when you are like WTF he driving instead of pulling out.

Other teams are adapting to this Utah great defense an getting back fast. That forces Utah in to slower play as less fast break opportunity. Also reinforces Utah defensive identity an makes them play are style not there's.

Utah killed Atlanta in offensive transition possessions even tho they were getting back fast. Defense demoralized ATL so they responded with transition defense attempts. We made them play are game an yeah it did demoralize them.

 

[KqWIN]

So..... the Opponents PPG?!?!? lol

No, absolutely not. I'll try to put this in as basic terms as I can. How many points do they score for every chance that they get?

That is what matters. Different teams have different amounts of chances depending on their pace. The thing is, when two teams play together their chances are the same for all intents and purposes. How do I know this? Because when one team has the ball, the other team gets the ball after they are done.

If you're stacking up one teams PPG versus another, that's not a fair comparison because they probably allow different amounts of chances to score. Allowing less chances to score sounds like a good thing, but it's not really because once the teams play they will have the same amount of possessions.

This is the part you're not getting. Even if they come out on the short end of the stick sometimes, there's value in this. Less possessions means more pressure to execute, which I'd argue is a good way to prime a team for the playoffs in the regular season..

The part that you're not getting is that any potential psychological warfare, voodoo, or magic you think that a slow pace causes would show up in the defensive efficiency. Your whole argument rests on this. If playing slow does indeed put more pressure on the offense and in turn makes them play worse, that would show up in their points per possession.

Less offensive possessions increases the value of all peripheral stats, which also plays into Utah's hands.. as the team is built to be well above avg on the boards and getting blocks.

I don't know what you're really getting at here. If we get 7 blocks in a game, that's more important than another team getting 7 blocks in a game because we play at a slower pace? I would agree, because it's exactly the same thing as points per possession. We're scoring 96.6 points per game, which is 4th worst in the league, but our offense isn't actually 4th worst in the league because we play at a slow pace.

To me what you're arguing is that the Jazz have a conflicted identity. I don't see it that way, I see a bunch of aspects of the game working in concert with each other..

Once again, absolutely not. I'm saying that playing fast or slow doesn't innately make you better or worse. As in, allowing 90 points on 90 possessions is the exact same thing as allowing 95 on 95 possessions. If it helps or hurts you, it would show up in the efficiency. Pace is a zero sum game. You lower the amount of defensive possessions, you also lower the amount of offensive possessions.

If the Jazz weren't Tied for 21st in 3pt % and 11th in 3pt attempts (which accounts for a bigger portion of the offense than most teams, due to the slower pace..) this wouldn't even be a point of discussion.

I don't know what your point here either, but it just goes back to the blocks thing. The Jazz are 11th in three point attempts, but just like you said it accounts for more of the offense than other teams because of the slower pace. If the Jazz played at a normal pace, their 3 point attempts would be higher. The exact same thing applies for points. Why is that that 3FGA is misleading because of pace whereas PPG isn't? The entire point of this discussion is that PPG allowed isn't the best measure of a team's defense. You just showed this with this 3FG tangent.