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Vitriolic Rhetoric in Wisconsin

The Thriller said:
Or we could just address these issues.

Or you could start by actually answering questions instead of creating a new thread every 10 minutes.
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The best thing would be if you could stop dropping liberal turds all over my thread.

I'll stick to the examples of the destructive power of public employee unions you demanded:

Here are 2 articles about what they have done to California:

Pension Time Bomb
https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/10/AR2008091002726.html

California's $500-billion pension time bomb

The state of California's real unfunded pension debt clocks in at more than $500 billion, nearly eight times greater than officially reported.

That's the finding from a study released Monday (last April) by Stanford University's public policy program, confirming a recent report with similar, stunning findings from Northwestern University and the University of Chicago.

How did we get here? The answer is simple: For decades -- and without voter consent -- state leaders have been issuing billions of dollars of debt in the form of unfunded pension and healthcare promises, then gaming accounting rules in order to understate the size of those promises.

Because legislators are unwilling to raise issues that might offend that constituency(public employee unions), they have effectively turned the peroration of Abraham Lincoln's Gettysburg Address on its head: Instead of a government of the people, by the people and for the people, we have become a government of its employees, by its employees and for its employees.
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https://articles.latimes.com/2010/apr/06/opinion/la-oe-crane6-2010apr06

What happened in Indiana when the new Governor eliminated collective bargaining power of the PEU?

The public employees got to keep $1K they didn't have to pay to unions. The good empoyees got raises while the bad ones got fired, rather than having to treat the good and bad workers the same.

Like California the problem in Wisconsin is the pensions and benefits:

Average MPS Teacher Compensation Tops $100k/year

https://maciverinstitute.com/2010/03/average-mps-teacher-compensation-tops-100kyear/

The average salary for an MPS teacher is $56,500. When fringe benefits are factored in, the annual compensation will be $100,005 in 2011.
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Like Walker said, he could either fire a bunch of public employees or the workers can chip in to pay a small portion of it, like those in the private sector have to.

"For decades now, the Democrats have had a good gig buying the votes of government workers with outrageous salaries, benefits and work rules -- and then sticking productive earners with the bill. But, now, we're out of money, no matter how long Wisconsin Democrats hide out in Illinois."
 
VINYLONE said:
There are complete morans on both sides of the issue.
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I know, but isn't it hilarious when he says that they tell him what to make and when to make it? I have been laughing about that all day. Uh, dude, you work in a restaurant where, go with me on this, people are going to come in randomly and order what they want. I mean, the nerve of the evil restaurant owner expecting this poor picked on guy to make what people order... Personally, I think they should form a union, and make the owner pay them $50,000/year plus bonuses and insurance. Also, they should push for the right to not have to make dishes at the will of the owner.
 
I love how the far right cries about having to pay for people's health insurance, and their social security, and their food stamps, etc. And when we have people trying to earn an honest living with their own medical insurance, retirement, and living wage, the far right screams about that too.

Someone needs to tell that moron in Wisconsin that he can either let people earn it on their own, pay their way for them, or deal with it when they have no other options.
 
SaltyDawg said:
I love how the far right cries about having to pay for people's health insurance, and their social security, and their food stamps, etc. And when we have people trying to earn an honest living with their own medical insurance, retirement, and living wage, the far right screams about that too.

Someone needs to tell that moron in Wisconsin that he can either let people earn it on their own, pay their way for them, or deal with it when they have no other options.
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You do realize that taxes pay for their medical insurance, retirement, and "living wage." It comes down to a couple of question: Do public employees deserve better benefits and pensions than the tax payers who are footing their bill? Is it better for the governor to lay workers off or let them all keep their job but each sacrifice a little?
 
Millsapa said:
You do realize that taxes pay for their medical insurance, retirement, and "living wage." It comes down to a couple of question: Do public employees deserve better benefits and pensions than the tax payers who are footing their bill? Is it better for the governor to lay workers off or let them all keep their job but each sacrifice a little?
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1: They work for their money and benefits. This is not a government handout.

2: They have already agreed to all of the pay and benefit reductions. The sticking point is their right to collective bargain in the future. The amount of their pay and benefits hurting the budget (or being more than the taxpayers') is not an issue if they have already agreed to the governor's demanded cuts.

3: These are not tweakers who dropped out of high school and flip burgers at mickey dees between their meth binges to satisfy the employment requirement of their parole. These are teachers, firemen, police officers, etc. Educated people, people who put their lives on the line for us, people who are tasked with helping our children be all they can be... These people deserve our respect and we should not be trying to take their rights and freedoms away.


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SaltyDawg said:
1: They work for their money and benefits. This is not a government handout.

2: They have already agreed to all of the pay and benefit reductions. The sticking point is their right to collective bargain in the future. The amount of their pay and benefits hurting the budget (or being more than the taxpayers') is not an issue if they have already agreed to the governor's demanded cuts.

3: These are not tweakers who dropped out of high school and flip burgers at mickey dees between their meth binges to satisfy the employment requirement of their parole. These are teachers, firemen, police officers, etc. Educated people, people who put their lives on the line for us, people who are tasked with helping our children be all they can be... These people deserve our respect and we should not be trying to take their rights and freedoms away.


Sent from my HTC Evo using Tapatalk.
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I listened to an interview with a former head of a union a few days ago. In his view, "they" meaning the moneyed honchos somewhere somehow, are just out busting the whole concept of unions.

The fundamental problem of unionized public or government employees is that there is no fundamental restriction imposed by free market competition in the "industry". Where we have a serious problem in federal government with the bureaucracy that has taken a life of its own and is resistant to all efforts by elected represpentatives or the President to have any impact on their way of doing "business", the people have lost their fundamental right to govern themselves. In the case of state and local government, the same unsavory aspect is becoming more apparent. The role of the government unions is aggravating this issue.

Millsapa is right that government "workers" should not earn substantially better pay and comp than private sector workers doing comprobable work, and there definitely is a need to restore the ideal of "public service" in the ranks of government officials/workers. What the real issue should be is whether we want to support an elite cadre of overlords with essentially unlimited power to interfere with our lives in every possible way.

Unions should have the sense, and basic loyalty to everyday folks, not to defend the elitist overlord class. And yes, I include public school teachers and policemen as having that attitude all too often.
 
babe said:
I listened to an interview with a former head of a union a few days ago. In his view, "they" meaning the moneyed honchos somewhere somehow, are just out busting the whole concept of unions.

The fundamental problem of unionized public or government employees is that there is no fundamental restriction imposed by free market competition in the "industry". Where we have a serious problem in federal government with the bureaucracy that has taken a life of its own and is resistant to all efforts by elected represpentatives or the President to have any impact on their way of doing "business", the people have lost their fundamental right to govern themselves. In the case of state and local government, the same unsavory aspect is becoming more apparent. The role of the government unions is aggravating this issue.

Millsapa is right that government "workers" should not earn substantially better pay and comp than private sector workers doing comprobable work, and there definitely is a need to restore the ideal of "public service" in the ranks of government officials/workers. What the real issue should be is whether we want to support an elite cadre of overlords with essentially unlimited power to interfere with our lives in every possible way.

Unions should have the sense, and basic loyalty to everyday folks, not to defend the elitist overlord class. And yes, I include public school teachers and policemen as having that attitude all too often.
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Well these people have already agreed to the pay and benefit reductions. So the amount of money they make and quality of their benefits is not an issue. It's just a smokescreen.


Sent from my HTC Evo using Tapatalk.
 
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