Vitriolic Rhetoric in Wisconsin

[moevillini]

so I wonder if across Cairo there are Egyptian citizens at their computers posting their thoughts on a message board about the protesters trying to overthrow the government in Madison,Wisconsin

 

[VINYLONE]

Again, business as usual. Anytime state owned apparatus are sold without a bidding process, the idea that the states budget is of importance or that those in charge are looking for the "best" deal for their state is absolutely ludicrous. It's more state waste at the hands the usual ilk.

https://www.jsonline.com/business/116965798.html

 

[Deleted member 365]

The hyperbole from the right is downright scary in these times.

What legislation has the union influenced in Wisconsin, that has largely benefited workers and hurt the state in the last 10 years? I want at least 10 examples. It's too easy to blame the union on everything. I want specific examples of how the "union" has unfairly bent over the state to get what they unjustly wanted.

The hate towards teachers. So much of it is being puked from AM radio and fox. Unbelievable! In Utah especially, the union is being blamed for everything. If the teacher's union is so strong, you'd think they could get more than 30k per year and 35 students per classroom for their teachers.

The myth that people on welfare/food stamps/some form of government assistance are a bunch of lazy asses who work up one morning and decided to "make a living" on government assistance. Most of them, don't want to be there. In fact, most of them, are suffering on the crumbs that government assistance is. I have yet to see anyone build a home on the east side and drive a sports car off of their welfare check. I seriously wonder if most critics of welfare/poor people know that one most show evidence every month that they're actively seeking new employment or else lose their check.

The myth that SS is somehow bankrupting our country. That it's being used as a retirement. Seriously? Once again, the checks received aren't anything to be proud of. And very few people don't just screw up and not plan for retirement. Most do, but if Repubs deregulate everything so that wall street can take gambles and lose everyone's money....

with all the talk about unions ruining our states, why aren't we focusing on the real reason why so many states are facing tough financial times? The Great Recession. And what caused the recession? It wasn't the unions folks. What has been done to prevent the meltdown of our financial system that occurred 2 years ago from happening again? Of course, the rich and those in charge of foxnews and AM radio don't want to focus on that. They prefer the middle class make war with themselves. And when wall street melts down again? The middle class will bail them out again. But who cares? As long as the rich continue to redistribute wealth and get wealthier, that's all that matters.

One last thought... Why are we focusing so much on cutting domestic programs which benefit our own people while we're ******** trillions of dollars away in Iraq and Afghanistan? Why can't Europe and Asia defend themselves? And why are we investing billions into Haiti, Israel, and S. Korea? Why is EXXON, which is having record profits, still given government subsidies? Aren't they supposed to be used to subsidize companies that cannot survive on their own?

 

[SaltyDawg]

The hyperbole from the right is downright scary in these times.

What legislation has the union influenced in Wisconsin, that has largely benefited workers and hurt the state in the last 10 years? I want at least 10 examples. It's too easy to blame the union on everything. I want specific examples of how the "union" has unfairly bent over the state to get what they unjustly wanted.

The hate towards teachers. So much of it is being puked from AM radio and fox. Unbelievable! In Utah especially, the union is being blamed for everything. If the teacher's union is so strong, you'd think they could get more than 30k per year and 35 students per classroom for their teachers.

The myth that people on welfare/food stamps/some form of government assistance are a bunch of lazy asses who work up one morning and decided to "make a living" on government assistance. Most of them, don't want to be there. In fact, most of them, are suffering on the crumbs that government assistance is. I have yet to see anyone build a home on the east side and drive a sports car off of their welfare check. I seriously wonder if most critics of welfare/poor people know that one most show evidence every month that they're actively seeking new employment or else lose their check.

The myth that SS is somehow bankrupting our country. That it's being used as a retirement. Seriously? Once again, the checks received aren't anything to be proud of. And very few people don't just screw up and not plan for retirement. Most do, but if Repubs deregulate everything so that wall street can take gambles and lose everyone's money....

with all the talk about unions ruining our states, why aren't we focusing on the real reason why so many states are facing tough financial times? The Great Recession. And what caused the recession? It wasn't the unions folks. What has been done to prevent the meltdown of our financial system that occurred 2 years ago from happening again? Of course, the rich and those in charge of foxnews and AM radio don't want to focus on that. They prefer the middle class make war with themselves. And when wall street melts down again? The middle class will bail them out again. But who cares? As long as the rich continue to redistribute wealth and get wealthier, that's all that matters.

One last thought... Why are we focusing so much on cutting domestic programs which benefit our own people while we're ******** trillions of dollars away in Iraq and Afghanistan? Why can't Europe and Asia defend themselves? And why are we investing billions into Haiti, Israel, and S. Korea? Why is EXXON, which is having record profits, still given government subsidies? Aren't they supposed to be used to subsidize companies that cannot survive on their own?

We'll never see eye to eye about anything college football, but this post here is spot on.

 

[LogGrad98]

Paying subsidies to oil companies is a PR move by politicians. They are ostensibly to offset costs so they can keep the price of gas low. Whether the offset in costs is the reason or that they are using oil to hold america hostage is debatable. In turn we get cheaper gas at the pump, the politicians look like heroes to the average Joe for helping him get lower gas prices and the oil companies and politicians all line their pockets.

And don't kid yourself, the oil lobby is absolutely NOT exclusive to the republican party. They spread the wealth around.

 

[PearlWatson]

The hyperbole from the right is downright scary in these times.

What legislation has the union influenced in Wisconsin, that has largely benefited workers and hurt the state in the last 10 years? I want at least 10 examples. It's too easy to blame the union on everything. I want specific examples of how the "union" has unfairly bent over the state to get what they unjustly wanted.

The hate towards teachers. So much of it is being puked from AM radio and fox. Unbelievable! In Utah especially, the union is being blamed for everything. If the teacher's union is so strong, you'd think they could get more than 30k per year and 35 students per classroom for their teachers.

The myth that people on welfare/food stamps/some form of government assistance are a bunch of lazy asses who work up one morning and decided to "make a living" on government assistance. Most of them, don't want to be there. In fact, most of them, are suffering on the crumbs that government assistance is. I have yet to see anyone build a home on the east side and drive a sports car off of their welfare check. I seriously wonder if most critics of welfare/poor people know that one most show evidence every month that they're actively seeking new employment or else lose their check.

The myth that SS is somehow bankrupting our country. That it's being used as a retirement. Seriously? Once again, the checks received aren't anything to be proud of. And very few people don't just screw up and not plan for retirement. Most do, but if Repubs deregulate everything so that wall street can take gambles and lose everyone's money....

with all the talk about unions ruining our states, why aren't we focusing on the real reason why so many states are facing tough financial times? The Great Recession. And what caused the recession? It wasn't the unions folks. What has been done to prevent the meltdown of our financial system that occurred 2 years ago from happening again? Of course, the rich and those in charge of foxnews and AM radio don't want to focus on that. They prefer the middle class make war with themselves. And when wall street melts down again? The middle class will bail them out again. But who cares? As long as the rich continue to redistribute wealth and get wealthier, that's all that matters.

One last thought... Why are we focusing so much on cutting domestic programs which benefit our own people while we're ******** trillions of dollars away in Iraq and Afghanistan? Why can't Europe and Asia defend themselves? And why are we investing billions into Haiti, Israel, and S. Korea? Why is EXXON, which is having record profits, still given government subsidies? Aren't they supposed to be used to subsidize companies that cannot survive on their own?

You should start your own Republicans are to blame for everything thread if you want to talk about anything other than what is going on in Wisconsin.

 

[Deleted member 365]

You should start your own Republicans are to blame for everything thread if you want to talk about anything other than what is going on in Wisconsin.

Or we could just address these issues.

Or you could start by actually answering questions instead of creating a new thread every 10 minutes.

 

[Deleted member 365]

Paying subsidies to oil companies is a PR move by politicians. They are ostensibly to offset costs so they can keep the price of gas low. Whether the offset in costs is the reason or that they are using oil to hold america hostage is debatable. In turn we get cheaper gas at the pump, the politicians look like heroes to the average Joe for helping him get lower gas prices and the oil companies and politicians all line their pockets.

And don't kid yourself, the oil lobby is absolutely NOT exclusive to the republican party. They spread the wealth around.

Why and how do we get cheaper gas by giving out government subsidizes?

Why are government subsidizes being used to, as you said, "offset costs"(how much are the costs anyway?) when record profits are being made?

Here's a wild concept, instead of the CEO giving himself billions more in profits (using government subsidies), why doesn't he invest billions more in offsetting costs, creating jobs, and growing his company? If anything, eliminating them might give them less of the lazy *** mentality (what's good for the goose is good for the gander. If "handouts" to Americans make them lazy asses. Then why aren't handouts to companies not considered counterproductive too? Gotta love the double standard the right has. Handouts to people=evil. Handouts to corporation=good. Why? Because the people in charge of propaganda are rich and say so).

Government subsidizes were meant to aid industries/companies that couldn't survive on their own. EXXON, by smashing records in profits even during this recession can certainly survive on its own without receiving billions in handouts further weighing the wallets of those CEOs down even more.

As for your claim that both parties are in bed with the oil companies, I don't buy that. Which party is constantly advocating the DRILL BABY DRILL philosophy and which one is advocating the GOING GREEN philosophy?

It's really not that difficult of a concept to understand. Repubs from the beginning of time have been for big industries and banks. They were the party of the North. What used to be railroad giants are now oil companies. The same monopoly, price gouging, shenanigans are being played here folks. Just under a different name....

 

[LogGrad98]

Why and how do we get cheaper gas by giving out government subsidizes?

Why are government subsidizes being used to, as you said, "offset costs"(how much are the costs anyway?) when record profits are being made?

Here's a wild concept, instead of the CEO giving himself billions more in profits (using government subsidies), why doesn't he invest billions more in offsetting costs, creating jobs, and growing his company? If anything, eliminating them might give them less of the lazy *** mentality (what's good for the goose is good for the gander. If "handouts" to Americans make them lazy asses. Then why aren't handouts to companies not considered counterproductive too? Gotta love the double standard the right has. Handouts to people=evil. Handouts to corporation=good. Why? Because the people in charge of propaganda are rich and say so).

Government subsidizes were meant to aid industries/companies that couldn't survive on their own. EXXON, by smashing records in profits even during this recession can certainly survive on its own without receiving billions in handouts further weighing the wallets of those CEOs down even more.

As for your claim that both parties are in bed with the oil companies, I don't buy that. Which party is constantly advocating the DRILL BABY DRILL philosophy and which one is advocating the GOING GREEN philosophy?

It's really not that difficult of a concept to understand. Repubs from the beginning of time have been for big industries and banks. They were the party of the North. What used to be railroad giants are now oil companies. The same monopoly, price gouging, shenanigans are being played here folks. Just under a different name....

So what in my post appears to be in support of oil company subsidies? I was denigrating the politicians that use that as a political chip. Notice I also point out that largely we see politicians and the oil companies lining their pockets with money. You do realize that is in support of the first part of your position, right?

As for your claim that oil money only taints republicans, if you seriously think that any lobby out there banks entirely on swaying just one side of the debate then wow are you naive. Of course there are deeper-ingrained support for various special interest groups on either side of the debate (gay-rights and unions tend to be supported by dems, oil and big business by repubs), but any lobbyist worth his weight in crap will spread money around to anyone he can to sway the political leanings. If they can get even just a handful of the other side to vote their way it may sway policy in their favor, and for them it is money well-spent. You seriously think the oil lobby will risk a democratic president and possible democratic congress changing things in ways that may hurt them? You better believe they are slipping those guys some bills under the table as well, just to maintain the status quo until a more favorable political landscape emerges.

 

[Deleted member 365]

https://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/01/08/60minutes/main4707770.shtml

This report is a must read for anyone who cares about gas prices, government, and our economy.

It's funny, no right winger that I've ever talked to is aware of this report. When reflecting upon the crazy gas prices of this period of time, they oft argue that Democrats caused it by not drilling in ANWR. And that China and India's growing economy caused it. Which would justify mass expansion of drilling in America.

Quite only, supply and demand... and subsidies... don't count for **** when speculators really control the prices...

Remember in 07-08 prices skyrocketed? Yeah... they shouldn't have if supply and demanded mattered... In fact, they should have dropped...

If anyone had any doubts, they were dispelled a few days after that hearing when the price of oil jumped $25 in a single day. That day was Sept. 22.

Michael Greenberger, a former director of trading for the U.S. Commodity Futures Trading Commission, the federal agency that oversees oil futures, says there were no supply disruptions that could have justified such a big increase.

"Did China and India suddenly have gigantic needs for new oil products in a single day? No. Everybody agrees supply-demand could not drive the price up $25, which was a record increase in the price of oil. The price of oil went from somewhere in the 60s to $147 in less than a year. And we were being told, on that run-up, 'It's supply-demand, supply-demand, supply-demand,'" Greenberger said.

A recent report out of MIT, analyzing world oil production and consumption, also concluded that the basic fundamentals of supply and demand could not have been responsible for last year's run-up in oil prices. And Michael Masters says the U.S. Department of Energy's own statistics show that if the markets had been working properly, the price of oil should have been going down, not up.

The same BS is happening again... Libya is having some unrest and now prices are feared to go up to $5 a gallon here. Of course, there's always an excuse given. Some unrest in the middle east... Bigfoot attacking some obscure pump in Montana which causes a national panic...

Next year will be because of some disease.

The year after will be because of some comet.

The year after will be because of unrest in Iran....

And we'll continue to buy these stories without actually investigating them or cracking down on speculation. Kinda like we all just assume wall street and the banks learned their lessons from 2 years ago.... LOL...

But that's ok. Americans will ignore the real issues because tv and radio tell them so. Instead of cracking down on the real threats to our society, we'll tear apart our fellow class who belong to unions and who teach kids and who are struggling just to make ends meet. While Gordon Gekko is laughing at our expense repeating his famous quote:

Money itself isn't lost or made, it's simply transferred from one perception to another.

 

[Deleted member 365]

So what in my post appears to be in support of oil company subsidies? I was denigrating the politicians that use that as a political chip. Notice I also point out that largely we see politicians and the oil companies lining their pockets with money. You do realize that is in support of the first part of your position, right? Seriously, try reading, and holstering your paranoia.

As for your claim that oil money only taints republicans, if you seriously think that any lobby out there banks entirely on swaying just one side of the debate then wow are you naive. Of course there are deeper-ingrained support for various special interest groups on either side of the debate (gay-rights and unions tend to be supported by dems, oil and big business by repubs), but any lobbyist worth his weight in crap will spread money around to anyone he can to sway the political leanings. If they can get even just a handful of the other side to vote their way it may sway policy in their favor, and for them it is money well-spent. You seriously think the oil lobby will risk a democratic president and possible democratic congress changing things in ways that may hurt them? You better believe they are slipping those guys some bills under the table as well, just to maintain the status quo until a more favorable political landscape emerges.

I agree. Good post.

 

[franklin]

Quite only, supply and demand... and subsidies... don't count for **** when speculators really control the prices...

Remember in 07-08 prices skyrocketed? Yeah... they shouldn't have if supply and demanded mattered... In fact, they should have dropped...

You know what is really a bitch is when these here dirty *** some bitching speculatin falutin some damn gun ******** cause them there futures contracts to go down to dad gummed far an we is payin less at them thar pumps an not more cause we's payin less ya see? Ya know, like they is doin right here an now down thar with that West Texis Intermedicit shtuff, ya know? That there Texas sweet is lower than that thar heavy sour crapolah. Dirty damn dumb speculatin falutin bitches. I tell you what.

Get a grip. It works both ways. Besides, I really don't give a damn if oil goes to $5 or $6 or $7 per barrel. Last time that happened we saw demand destruction that brought a decade of cheap gas. Give me the high prices and let innovation put the death grip back on Saudi. Why do you think Saudi is pumping more? They don't like price spikes because they fully realize the consequences.