Vonleh and Favors Front Court: Would it be Enough Defensively?

[Batman]

This last season we were bad defensively. Bottom 5 as many of you know. I have wondered often how much that had to do with Corbin's defensive schemes or the bench, or Kanter's bad defensive rotations. We were like 1 and 21 (may very well be off but it was a pretty bad record) with Kanter as the starter. Favors was also not good defensively (He was like ranked 45th among centers or something atrocious like that). I said this about a week ago but one coach said He thought Favors was bad because he was undersized to play the 5. Favors isn't 7 feet tall. He's 6'10 with elite length. So please don't anyone jump on a whim to reply that he's as big as Hibbert cause he's not. Hibbert has more girth and is taller. Roy Hibbert weighs 290. Favors weighs like 265. Hibbert is also 7'2.

I am not saying that Favors absolutely can not be a great Rim Protector at the 5, I am just saying that I'm a bit concerned. Obviously Noah has been great in Chicago and Weighs less and is just an inch taller. I Am pretty positive that though an inch taller, Favors has superior length and athleticism. Personally I think there is a chance that Favors Bulked up a little too much because he lost some of his athleticism and struggled running the floor which I suppose means that fatigue was a factor. I think I'd like to see Favors lose 10 pounds. Anyone agree with me there?

Anyway, to get to the point, the more I think about it the more I feel that we will end up drafting between Exum and Vonleh. Orlando will likely choose between the 2 and we'll pick the one that is left on the board. Assuming that the Magic choose Exum, (they have wanted a PG for some time now and though Smart has a chance to be taken here Chad Ford says he might have dropped off their radar after his two workouts which were not particularly strong) that would mean the Jazz will take Vonleh. My questions then is essentially this: Vonleh is 6'10 but has elite length like Favors. Is that enough Size down low to be the foundation of a top 10 defensive team? I assume because Favors weighs more and is more athletic and has more experience at the position that he would play the 5. Vonleh can shoot it very well too or so it seems (I think his shot looks great. Beautiful form for a big man.), so he'd be a nice stretch four. Vonleh also has a relatively nice dribble drive game for a big. He can put it on the floor in a way I can't ever imagine Favors doing.

If we drafted Vonleh he'd be a great young prospect and if I were Lindsey, I'd trade Kanter. Sactown is trying to trade their pick at 8. Maybe we can give them a package they like with Kanter and #23 (they probably want an experienced vet though). Also, I really like Zach Lavine out of UCLA. He's a swing for the fences type talent. Guy has a beautiful shot and has like a 46 inch vert. He's elite athletically. Snyder could help mold him into a great NBA player. I think it's worth it because in the NBA you need Stars and Who knows... Maybe 5 years from now Lavine will be a star. It's worth a shot. Ford has Lavine going at 17.

 

[Batman]

I think I'd also be interested in maybe taking a look at Rodney Hood and Tyler Ennis if they are to be had.

 

[Stifle Tower]

We were like 1 and 21 (may very well be off but it was a pretty bad record) with Kanter as the starter.

Sorry but this is one of the WORST cause/effect correlations I have heard.

1. How many games did Kanter start when the PG's were JLIII and Tinsley? Not saying Kanter didn't have problems, but to blame only him for the Jazz being 1-12 when he was removed from the starting lineup is disingenuous. Lebron would have been hard-pressed to win significantly more games with those two playing the point.

2. Now look at the other games he started. Until the last several games, Kanter only started when Favors was OUT with an injury. Remove one of the Jazz' best players from a game and expect a win with Utah's lack of depth? Don't think so. Take away any of the "core5" and the Jazz have a difficult time winning.

3. Kanter was a starter for 2 of the Jazz' last three victories (Orl, NO). He didn't play in the final game against Minnesota. SO I guess this means Jazz actually have a BETTER shot at winning when Kanter starts than when he doesn't?


I've been on the Vonleh bandwagon longer than anyone except PG_AB. But even I admit Vonleh is a PROJECT. He's simply not ready to step in and be a starter or play 30 mins/per. And Gobert is not ready for major minutes. Jazz need four bigs. Trading Enes NOW, when his value is low, would be foolish. Let him start and show he can put up 16/10, which I think is very doable if he gets 30+ mins. If Vonleh or Gobert show they're ready to be starters, then trade Kanter at the deadline. He would have tremendous value as either a cheap addition to a contender, or a building block to a rebuilding team (since they would own his rights and could match any offer). He's easily tradeable at his 2014-15 salary.

 

[Batman]

Sorry but this is one of the WORST cause/effect correlations I have heard.

1. How many games did Kanter start when the PG's were JLIII and Tinsley? Not saying Kanter didn't have problems, but to blame only him for the Jazz being 1-12 when he was removed from the starting lineup is disingenuous. Lebron would have been hard-pressed to win significantly more games with those two playing the point.

2. Now look at the other games he started. Until the last several games, Kanter only started when Favors was OUT with an injury. Remove one of the Jazz' best players from a game and expect a win with Utah's lack of depth? Don't think so. Take away any of the "core5" and the Jazz have a difficult time winning.

3. Kanter was a starter for 2 of the Jazz' last three victories (Orl, NO). He didn't play in the final game against Minnesota. SO I guess this means Jazz actually have a BETTER shot at winning when Kanter starts than when he doesn't?

Not saying it's all Kanter. However, I think don't think Kanter is at a point yet where he helps you win. I think you could make an argument that Hayward and Favors, if secondary pieces to the puzzle, help you win.

Also, I appreciate that you always defend Kanter.

 

[Darkwing Duck]

Sorry but this is one of the WORST cause/effect correlations I have heard.

1. How many games did Kanter start when the PG's were JLIII and Tinsley? Not saying Kanter didn't have problems, but to blame only him for the Jazz being 1-12 when he was removed from the starting lineup is disingenuous. Lebron would have been hard-pressed to win significantly more games with those two playing the point.

2. Now look at the other games he started. Until the last several games, Kanter only started when Favors was OUT with an injury. Remove one of the Jazz' best players from a game and expect a win with Utah's lack of depth? Don't think so. Take away any of the "core5" and the Jazz have a difficult time winning.

3. Kanter was a starter for 2 of the Jazz' last three victories (Orl, NO). He didn't play in the final game against Minnesota. SO I guess this means Jazz actually have a BETTER shot at winning when Kanter starts than when he doesn't?


I've been on the Vonleh bandwagon longer than anyone except PG_AB. But even I admit Vonleh is a PROJECT. He's simply not ready to step in and be a starter or play 30 mins/per. And Gobert is not ready for major minutes. Jazz need four bigs. Trading Enes NOW, when his value is low, would be foolish. Let him start and show he can put up 16/10, which I think is very doable if he gets 30+ mins. If Vonleh or Gobert show they're ready to be starters, then trade Kanter at the deadline. He would have tremendous value as either a cheap addition to a contender, or a building block to a rebuilding team (since they would own his rights and could match any offer). He's easily tradeable at his 2014-15 salary.

Would it be surprising for you to learn that the Lucas-Hayward-Jefferson-Favors-Kanter lineup was actually better than the Burke-Hayward-Jefferson-Favors-Kanter lineup?

 

[Game6Conley]

Would they be enough defensively to stop the onslaught that last years perimeter defense allowed? Absolutely not.

Could they be tough enough defensively to cause playoff teams issues? id say yes. 2 big bodied players with 7'4" wingspans and agility to hedge on P+R's can get the job done in today's NBA.

Vs a matchup like Brook Lopez there's still a size issue, but those games are few and far between

 

[MVP]

Undersized. Unless we are playing run and gun shoot lights out type like Suns I see as at disadvantage with this type of frontcourt.

 

[JAZZGASM]

I honestly feel like Favors has regressed on D. I watched him a lot with NJ, and he was better and more aggressive.

 

[Stifle Tower]

Would it be surprising for you to learn that the Lucas-Hayward-Jefferson-Favors-Kanter lineup was actually better than the Burke-Hayward-Jefferson-Favors-Kanter lineup?

Not really. Jazz were bad early with Lucas/Tinsley in part due to the brutal schedule. But they were bad in March/April because the team had just stopped trying. Not counting the final win (when Kanter was out), the Jazz were just 3-19 from March -April. In short, I don't think you can point to any ONE player and say he was the cause for the Jazz' misery. It was a team effort (failure) to finish 25-57.

 

[default]

I honestly feel like Favors has regressed on D. I watched him a lot with NJ, and he was better and more aggressive.

I personally think he is just spread too thin now since we have no perimeter defense and Kanter if almost always out of position. If we had a could other people actually playing defense, he could focus more on rim protection and his own man.

 

[Darkwing Duck]

Not really. Jazz were bad early with Lucas/Tinsley in part due to the brutal schedule. But they were bad in March/April because the team had just stopped trying. Not counting the final win (when Kanter was out), the Jazz were just 3-19 from March -April. In short, I don't think you can point to any ONE player and say he was the cause for the Jazz' misery. It was a team effort (failure) to finish 25-57.

Sure, but Kanter's numbers are damning. His presence on the court over the course of the season affected the Jazz WORSE than when Lucas was out there. Team played extraodinarily better when he was on the bench, and there's no way to spin that.

 

[sahlensguy]

Vonleh and defense in the title, but no talk of Vonleh's defense???

I've read it sucks. Few instincts. Gets caught flat footed. No thanks.

 

[JAZZGASM]

I personally think he is just spread too thin now since we have no perimeter defense and Kanter if almost always out of position. If we had a could other people actually playing defense, he could focus more on rim protection and his own man.

I completely agree that our entire front line is spread thin, but I just don't seem Favors motor moving like it used to. There is no excuse for the downturn in effort. Maybe Quin will turn that around. I really hope so. And if he can't get everyone playing at a high effort, I hope the team has the cajones to ship them out.

 

[JAZZGASM]

Vonleh and defense in the title, but no talk of Vonleh's defense???

I've read it sucks. Few instincts. Gets caught flat footed. No thanks.

He is actually a pretty good man on man defender due to his long arms. His timing could get better, but he is 18. If you have watched him play at Indiana, he often didn't have to jump against very big defenders to alter a shot. I think he will be solid on both ends.

 

[sahlensguy]

He is actually a pretty good man on man defender due to his long arms. His timing could get better, but he is 18. If you have watched him play at Indiana, he often didn't have to jump against very big defenders to alter a shot. I think he will be solid on both ends.

It sounds as though he's not the most active defender. He sounds like a sure project on D if not a liability. Gordon sounds like a natural defender. Perhaps this thread will enlighten me.

 

[JAZZGASM]

It sounds as though he's not the most active defender. He sounds like a sure project on D if not a liability. Gordon sounds like a natural defender. Perhaps this thread will enlighten me.

Gordon has a faster motor, but to say Vonleh isn't active on D is not accurate. He is aggressive, but plays bigger (and a bit slower) than Gordon. I definitely think he will be a strong post defender. His foot speed may cause him trouble with stretch 4's, but his wingspan will help to make up for that.

 

[JAZZGASM]

It sounds as though he's not the most active defender. He sounds like a sure project on D if not a liability. Gordon sounds like a natural defender. Perhaps this thread will enlighten me.

Vonleh will need to improve his positioning on the pick and roll. Most big men coming into the league need similar adjustments. His one on one post D is great. His foot speed may give him trouble with stretch 4s, but his wingspan should help minimize that.

 

[sahlensguy]

Gordon has a faster motor, but to say Vonleh isn't active on D is not accurate. He is aggressive, but plays bigger (and a bit slower) than Gordon. I definitely think he will be a strong post defender. His foot speed may cause him trouble with stretch 4's, but his wingspan will help to make up for that.

His decision making is a click slow according to reports which gets him flat footed on D. He also has a high foul rate. Flat feet and long reach is a recipe for fouls. He could be a huge bust. But then again, couldn't they all.

 

[kabenac]

His decision making is a click slow according to reports which gets him flat footed on D. He also has a high foul rate. Flat feet and long reach is a recipe for fouls. He could be a huge bust. But then again, couldn't they all.

High foul rate? It's pretty comparable to other bigs and is better than Embiid's.

 

[jazzrule]

Vonleh generated some buzz at the NBA combine without touching a basketball, after measuring in at 6'9.5", 247 pounds with a massive 7'4.25" wingspan. Vonleh gets shots off with ease, and he hit 16 of his 33 three-point attempts during the season.
He also finished as the Big Ten's leading rebounder even though he only played less than 27 minutes a game. Despite seeing limited touches in the offense, he flashed can't-miss potential on a routine basis.
Almost a year younger than Kentucky's Julius Randle, Vonleh's long-term potential is the selling point here, but between his NBA-ready body and freshman production, there really isn't much risk attached to him.
I would like to point out that he lead the BIG TEN in rebounding in less than 27 minutes a game. Guys the Big Ten is not a league for pansies, and I love he can hit jump hook shots with either hand.

Noah Vonleh is the second youngest prospect (after Aaron Gordon) in this draft class, but still ranks as the #1 rebounder among our top-100 prospects at nearly 15 rebounds per-40 minutes. A lot of offensive rebounds are out of his assigned area due to his great wingspan.

From DraftExpress.comhttps://www.draftexpress.com#ixzz34z8Nu51H
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