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Walker Kessler Should No Longer Play Until KO is Traded

This thread deserves a bump.

Cy was off the mark in terms of how he rated Kessler as a prospect but he made a very good point in regards to Lauri needing minutes to develop at the 5 and over the last 6 games we've seen the impact Lauri is having and that is partly due to his increased minutes playing there. Moving forward Lauri should continue playing at 3/4 position while stints at the 5 and in all likelihood finishing games as the 5.

Lauri is our best player and as far as Im concerned that is how I would best utilise him. Which in turn raises a few questions in regards to Kessler. Obviously there are still plenty of minutes for him but it does to a certain degree put a ceiling on what he can be for us. I think in any case he is limited in regards to his defense given the way the NBA is trending. Already he is elite at protecting the rim but outside of protecting the rim he is walking bucket for any decent mid range shooter and he barely makes any effort to close out on shooters. 5 years ago that wasn't an issue but with the way NBA players are scoring this season it is an issue now and to go somewhat off point this is arguably the biggest reason Gobert hasn't had the defensive impact the Timberwolves thought he was going to give them. There will always be a need for a rim protector but I'm struggling to envision a role for Kessler that is more than essentially back up (sixth man) minutes.

This all changes if he develops a heap on offense and is capable of stretching the floor and making plays, neither of which he has shown to this point of the season. Do we think it's possible he can develop his shot or could he develop his passing and play in a similar manner to Andrew Bogut for the Warriors. As I struggle to see him as a bonafide starter if all he is a rim protector, I feel that is a step back to Gobert who I admired as a player but was ultimately limited and with the way the NBA is trending this type of player is going to become less sort after.
 
Tom349 said:
This thread deserves a bump.

Cy was off the mark in terms of how he rated Kessler as a prospect but he made a very good point in regards to Lauri needing minutes to develop at the 5 and over the last 6 games we've seen the impact Lauri is having and that is partly due to his increased minutes playing there. Moving forward Lauri should continue playing at 3/4 position while stints at the 5 and in all likelihood finishing games as the 5.

Lauri is our best player and as far as Im concerned that is how I would best utilise him. Which in turn raises a few questions in regards to Kessler. Obviously there are still plenty of minutes for him but it does to a certain degree put a ceiling on what he can be for us. I think in any case he is limited in regards to his defense given the way the NBA is trending. Already he is elite at protecting the rim but outside of protecting the rim he is walking bucket for any decent mid range shooter and he barely makes any effort to close out on shooters. 5 years ago that wasn't an issue but with the way NBA players are scoring this season it is an issue now and to go somewhat off point this is arguably the biggest reason Gobert hasn't had the defensive impact the Timberwolves thought he was going to give them. There will always be a need for a rim protector but I'm struggling to envision a role for Kessler that is more than essentially back up (sixth man) minutes.

This all changes if he develops a heap on offense and is capable of stretching the floor and making plays, neither of which he has shown to this point of the season. Do we think it's possible he can develop his shot or could he develop his passing and play in a similar manner to Andrew Bogut for the Warriors. As I struggle to see him as a bonafide starter if all he is a rim protector, I feel that is a step back to Gobert who I admired as a player but was ultimately limited and with the way the NBA is trending this type of player is going to become less sort after.
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Kessler will be the starting center by next season.
 
Jingled said:
Kessler will be the starting center by next season.
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Not so sure. Vando and he can't share the floor and Vando is the better prospect. If either of them develop their shots to being respected they could share the floor but theres very small odds of that happening. I really like Vando ability to grab a rebound and lead the offense, over time I think his decision making improves and he can become more reliable in the half court. Super valuable player if he does, especially in Will Hardys system.

But you missed the point entirely in any case. Starter or not at this point in time Kessler upside is limited to non starter minutes. Lauri is a more versatile defender who can switch on the guards and not get absolutely smoked. Factor in his offense and he will be one finishing most games at the 5, some opposition line ups may suit Kessler but unlikely with the way the NBA is trending. Hopefully in the second half of the season Kessler is able to show us their is more to his game then being a lob threat and it will change my opinion on what he ceiling is but if he doesn't show any flashes then his potential really is limited regardless of him being a rookie.
 
Tom349 said:
Not so sure. Vando and he can't share the floor and Vando is the better prospect. If either of them develop their shots to being respected they could share the floor but theres very small odds of that happening. I really like Vando ability to grab a rebound and lead the offense, over time I think his decision making improves and he can become more reliable in the half court. Super valuable player if he does, especially in Will Hardys system.

But you missed the point entirely in any case. Starter or not at this point in time Kessler upside is limited to non starter minutes. Lauri is a more versatile defender who can switch on the guards and not get absolutely smoked. Factor in his offense and he will be one finishing most games at the 5, some opposition line ups may suit Kessler but unlikely with the way the NBA is trending. Hopefully in the second half of the season Kessler is able to show us their is more to his game then being a lob threat and it will change my opinion on what he ceiling is but if he doesn't show any flashes then his potential really is limited regardless of him being a rookie.
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Disagree that Vando is the better prospect. This is his 5th year in the league. Was a starter last year for Minn and averaged under 7 ppg. Up to about 8 this year. Unless a player was a top flight defender, those numbers are not that good
 
mcbsst said:
Disagree that Vando is the better prospect. This is his 5th year in the league. Was a starter last year for Minn and averaged under 7 ppg. Up to about 8 this year. Unless a player was a top flight defender, those numbers are not that good
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I think he can be with the right players around him. He spends most of his minutes alongside KO and JC, who are far and away our two worst defenders, factor in Conley who is an alert defender but can be targeted due to his size and it leaves Vando with a lot of responsibility. The aggressive approach to defense that Vando has and is where he is best doesn't exactly complement playing alongside those guys who offer little in the way of help defense.

As for his numbers per 36 he is averaging 12.1 pts, 11.6 rebounds and 4.0 assist a game. I don't expect him to improve much as far as scoring and rebounds go but I think his playmaking is something that can be developed and overtime be key component of his game. Right now he struggles with confidence from game to game which I think in turn leads to some dumb decisions but I feel as he gets more confident that should improve.
 
Tom349 said:
This thread deserves a bump.

Cy was off the mark in terms of how he rated Kessler as a prospect but he made a very good point in regards to Lauri needing minutes to develop at the 5 and over the last 6 games we've seen the impact Lauri is having and that is partly due to his increased minutes playing there. Moving forward Lauri should continue playing at 3/4 position while stints at the 5 and in all likelihood finishing games as the 5.

Lauri is our best player and as far as Im concerned that is how I would best utilise him. Which in turn raises a few questions in regards to Kessler. Obviously there are still plenty of minutes for him but it does to a certain degree put a ceiling on what he can be for us. I think in any case he is limited in regards to his defense given the way the NBA is trending. Already he is elite at protecting the rim but outside of protecting the rim he is walking bucket for any decent mid range shooter and he barely makes any effort to close out on shooters. 5 years ago that wasn't an issue but with the way NBA players are scoring this season it is an issue now and to go somewhat off point this is arguably the biggest reason Gobert hasn't had the defensive impact the Timberwolves thought he was going to give them. There will always be a need for a rim protector but I'm struggling to envision a role for Kessler that is more than essentially back up (sixth man) minutes.

This all changes if he develops a heap on offense and is capable of stretching the floor and making plays, neither of which he has shown to this point of the season. Do we think it's possible he can develop his shot or could he develop his passing and play in a similar manner to Andrew Bogut for the Warriors. As I struggle to see him as a bonafide starter if all he is a rim protector, I feel that is a step back to Gobert who I admired as a player but was ultimately limited and with the way the NBA is trending this type of player is going to become less sort after.
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Kessler is under Lauris mentorship. What everyone needs to do is give space for Kessler to develop as a rookie. Especially in the consideration that he is a rookie, Kessler has been amazing! And he is a good guy to have around in the locker room.

That, in fact, is one aspect that I am seeing nearly completely abscent on the NBA fan-forums. Considerations about team-dynamics. Roles are easy to discuss and argue but especially the things that bring intangibles to the table. For one, I think Olynuk brings a lot to the table with his presence in sense of team dynamics. Obviously, so does Conley and that is widely recognised.

But the problem and point being is that the players' characters tend to be evaluated in a very limited manner through box score and advanced stats. Its not just the raw performance but also very much about what and how each single guy enables others on the team to do. That is often referred to as chemistry but it is something that very much is assessable even if it is not measurable or quantifiable. I think that besides the raw performance and indicators that the advanced stats bring to the table, the psychological side and team dynamics are an area where some team (hopefully the Jazz) could make some headway compared to the competition and bringing a huge advantage. I think we got a glimpse of that in the early season where the team actually looked like players that added to more as a unit.

Sorry for the long detour. Regarding Kessler, I think that his skillset will develop quite a bit. He is still very young and able to adapt to new ways of playing the game. Count me as extremely impressed by Kesslers performance thus far. I expect great things from him in the future. Just keep in mind that it takes longer for bigs to develop as Lauri has shown. What we need is patience with Kessler.
 
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Tom349 said:
I think he can be with the right players around him. He spends most of his minutes alongside KO and JC, who are far and away our two worst defenders, factor in Conley who is an alert defender but can be targeted due to his size and it leaves Vando with a lot of responsibility.
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I'm tired of this excuse. There's absolutely no evidence that Vando is actually a very good defender but these other guys are dragging him down. It's much more likely that they ALL suck.

Vando is too small to guard bigs and too slow and inattentive to guard perimeter players. I have no idea what he does during an average defensive possession, but he's certainly not getting stops. He just seems to float around and watch the ball - in other words, replicating his role on offense.
 
He's my fav on this current roster. So under valued and worth it in spades. Gives me a Jazz boner to be honest.
 
framer said:
I think Kessler is the starting center going forward.
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I hope so. I think it kind of depends on what we do before the deadline...if KO and Vando are both still on the roster past the deadline then I think Hardy will continue to bring Kessler off the bench once KO is healthy, unfortunately.
 
Kesslers gonna be an offensive weapon in the future. He can shoot jump shots. He can use his left or right hand, can spin. Big man moves Rudy never had.
 
Other than his shot blocking, Kessler has a really random superpower for a guy that huge: he's extremely crafty with those reverse layups right under the basket. That's not normally something you'd want your center to rely on, but he's such a natural with them that he puts them up before the defender can react. Going forward, he needs to start turning more of those into dunks though.

IMO Kessler has soft hands - he can catch the ball in traffic and finish with finesse - but they're not especially quick at this point, and he needs to work on his grip strength too. A lot of his dunks under the hoop are foiled because he's so slow getting up with the ball, giving the defenders a chance to get their hands on it. I don't think he'll ever become explosive, so he needs to learn to take up more space in the low post - tighter grip on the ball, elbows out, initiate contact before putting it up.
 
Tremendous Upside said:
Other than his shot blocking, Kessler has a really random superpower for a guy that huge: he's extremely crafty with those reverse layups right under the basket. That's not normally something you'd want your center to rely on, but he's such a natural with them that he puts them up before the defender can react. Going forward, he needs to start turning more of those into dunks though.

IMO Kessler has soft hands - he can catch the ball in traffic and finish with finesse - but they're not especially quick at this point, and he needs to work on his grip strength too. A lot of his dunks under the hoop are foiled because he's so slow getting up with the ball, giving the defenders a chance to get their hands on it. I don't think he'll ever become explosive, so he needs to learn to take up more space in the low post - tighter grip on the ball, elbows out, initiate contact before putting it up.
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True. This strength will come with age, then he will stuff it and those times he is getting dunked on, but still getting a piece of the ball will be good blocks. He has so many things going for him this early in his career. Will be great to watch.
 
Teams will eventually stop going at him as much. He still doesn't have a ton of respect in terms of guys avoiding him, but it will get there.
 
Tremendous Upside said:
Other than his shot blocking, Kessler has a really random superpower for a guy that huge: he's extremely crafty with those reverse layups right under the basket. That's not normally something you'd want your center to rely on, but he's such a natural with them that he puts them up before the defender can react. Going forward, he needs to start turning more of those into dunks though.

IMO Kessler has soft hands - he can catch the ball in traffic and finish with finesse - but they're not especially quick at this point, and he needs to work on his grip strength too. A lot of his dunks under the hoop are foiled because he's so slow getting up with the ball, giving the defenders a chance to get their hands on it. I don't think he'll ever become explosive, so he needs to learn to take up more space in the low post - tighter grip on the ball, elbows out, initiate contact before putting it up.
Click to expand...
Kessler has smaller hands (according to nba draft measurements) than virtually any other big taken over the past several years. That's not the end-all-be-all for hand grip, but it's an innate disadvantage that he'll have to try to overcome.
 
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