Warning: Life, Mormonism, and Spiritual Thoughts. Enter at your own risk.

[Jazz Spazz]

Near-death experiences are not this cut and dried. Almost always they change the person, from my experience, but they can have implications that last far into the future and forever change your life in ways you would never have imagined. Sometimes in ways you never wanted or cannot come to terms with.

I'm not going to argue with this. I am also not going to try to post every thought I have on this, or other near death experiences as I would not have time to live my life, and would have to re-log in to Jazzfanz way too many times, not to mention break the post up into multiple posts.
I was not implying that this was a simple/cut and dried experience but saying a few things to Trout I thought were important.

 

[Ron Mexico]

As an agnostic I am glad you are okay and I am glad you had a powerful experience that made you look at life from a different view. It sounds like this made you a better/happier person so that is a great outcome from a crappy situation regardless of what powers or not powers were at hand.

 

[Bronco70]

Whether or not what we experienced was an "According to Hoyle" miracle is insignificant. What is significant is that I felt the touch of God. God got involved.

 

[billyshelby]

I liked your story. I'm glad you survived to continue posting on this board, hating CJ, loving the Jazz, and hopefully win your election.

But have you considered the possibility Satan spared your life? Maybe he possessed your friend against god's will to keep you alive because he has plans for you. I'm cool with that, but if you are an evil and powerful flower that is still blossoming, I would hope you could bring us a championship before you destroy the world. Thanks in advance.

 

[Deleted member 848]

Its funny how you said you "didnt deserve a second chance" Trout, yet to me you seriously seem like the kind of guy who does without question.

Whether the experience was coincidental or spiritual, I think what is most important is that you grasp onto this experience, and you try to have it impact your life for as long as possible. The "Angel of Forgetfulness" is often vital to human sanity, I mean if you could tap in to the amount of pain you were experiencing earlier this week at any given moment, the repair-process would be much more difficult. We have a natural tendency to forget times of despair as human beings, sometimes even near-death ones. My uncle moved with us 5 years ago at the age of 26 (from Europe) after being recently diagnosed with Stage IV Non-Hodgkins Lymphoma. After three years of treatment he is now 2 years remissed. Despite this all, and his many claims of how the experience changed his life, he still continues to be a somewhat despressed individual much akin to his lifestyle prior to the illness. My advice to you is to never forget this experince TB, use it not only to impact your own life on this world, enjoying every minute of it etc. but to also take the momentum and try to achieve any other goals you might have (particularily your run for city councillor) to try and benefit others, specifically your family, close friends, and community. It seems to me that God might have plans for you to reside in this world a bit longer; for what reasons you might never know, but just keep giving 'er, and see where life takes you. Rest well, and best of luck with both gainging back your health, as well as a successful run for City Councillor.

 

[LogGrad98]

I'm not going to argue with this. I am also not going to try to post every thought I have on this, or other near death experiences as I would not have time to live my life, and would have to re-log in to Jazzfanz way too many times, not to mention break the post up into multiple posts.
I was not implying that this was a simple/cut and dried experience but saying a few things to Trout I thought were important.

Sorry I didn't mean to say you were taking it lightly.

But it seems whenever I tell someone my personal experience this is about all I get and when I say that it wasn't like that for me, they seem to not be able to understand. It is almost like "well of course if you almost died, you should be more grateful, you should be closer to God, you should relish life, how could you not?" Many people seemed genuinely flabbergasted that I may not have been as spiritual or faithful or happy or grateful after my experience than I was before. And the ultimate insult was my bro-in-law telling me "well if I had gone through that I would definitely have felt close to God and cherish every day I have left", when he, or really anyone, who had not been there, cannot say what they would feel or how I (or anyone else) SHOULD feel.

I know that is not what you were implying so I am sorry if I kind of lumped you in there. That just kind of struck a nerve for me.

 

[bigb]

Maybe it's saying something about where my thoughts/feelings are or where my own spirituality is, but I can totally understand both points of view here. In fact, I find myself agreeing with both of them. Having been on both ends of blessings (giving and receiving) the obvious (maybe easiest) thing to do is to tell them what they want to hear: Get better and do it soon. Listening to "the Spirit" and saying what you're prompted isn't always that easy. I remember a blessing I gave in which a neighbor had been sick with stomach and back pains for a couple days. He finally asked for a blessing, so I went over. I wanted to tell him to rest and relax for a couple days and he'd be better. Instead, as I was giving the blessing, I knew that wasn't the case. I told him to get immediate medical help. He went to the ER and his appendix had burst. When they cut him open, they also found a good size hernia. Was that God's whispering to me? Was it common sense? All I can say is it wasn't what I thought I would say. I don't think my neighbor would have gone to the doctor without being told that. He had no plans to do it. He said he wasn't in that much pain. IMO, it was God. It was a leap of faith for me as I would have felt like an *** for telling him to go to the Dr. and have it be the flu. It was a leap of faith for him to go to the Dr. based just on what I said.

 

[LogGrad98]

I think the real question in all of this is...

Could god make a burrito sooo hot, that even he couldn't eat it?

Short answer: yes, but he wouldn't because he likes burritos.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

Sorry I didn't mean to say you were taking it lightly.

But it seems whenever I tell someone my personal experience this is about all I get and when I say that it wasn't like that for me, they seem to not be able to understand. It is almost like "well of course if you almost died, you should be more grateful, you should be closer to God, you should relish life, how could you not?" Many people seemed genuinely flabbergasted that I may not have been as spiritual or faithful or happy or grateful after my experience than I was before. And the ultimate insult was my bro-in-law telling me "well if I had gone through that I would definitely have felt close to God and cherish every day I have left", when he, or really anyone, who had not been there, cannot say what they would feel or how I (or anyone else) SHOULD feel.

I know that is not what you were implying so I am sorry if I kind of lumped you in there. That just kind of struck a nerve for me.

I hear you. I can say how I think I would take/handle something, but who am I to say how someone else should also take or handle anything.

That being said, if the result of an experience is that the person is more of a grateful person, and and happier with what they have, then that is a good thing whether that person is religious or not. I'm not saying the experience of itself caused it, more that the person experiencing it chose to take it that way.

 

[babe]

Thoughts? Can a man really be that in tuned with God?

Can God really find a way to exert an influence on any of us, even when we want Him to?

Seriously, this question immediately requires the concept of an omnipotent Supreme Being.

Besides twice escaping the complacent doctors who were failing to consider all the possibilities and the improbability of finding a real doctor who would, I see four very narrow events in this experience which Mrs. Trout should seriously consider as worthy of being written down in the family history as miracles:

(1) Trout asked for a blessing.

(2) The administering Elder did not say the obviously hoped-for "healing" words without specific inspiration to do so, and sent Trout to the ER.

(3) Trout didn't sit down and wait for the caregivers who likely wouldn't have had time or lattitude to check for something other than the "obvious".

(4) Trout, in the frame of mind of wanting God's help, was led to someone who would listen, and was inspired to ask the question, that led to the discovery of a primary causitive disorder, which could be fixed.

And thanks, Trout, for reminding me why it is a good health practice to fast sometimes, oh about once a month. Give those organs a break. Moderation.

 

[Craig K. Manscill]

Yes, it was the blessing that cured Troutbum. Remember, God can control every aspect of our lives. So when bad things happen in our lives, like illnesses, God can help us.

His blessing said he should return to the hospital. Sure, this is fairly simple knowledge, I think anybody would have said that. My stake president to my little deacon would have said that. But it wasn't the words that mattered. It's that Troutbum didn't die after the blessing. That's the thing about blessings: it doesn't matter what is said, we can attribute anything good happening after the blessing to be caused by the blessing. And I mean 5-10 years down the line, Troutbum wins a car, it was the blessing. That's how they work. God works in many ways.

In fact, I do believe that if Troubum didn't get this blessing, he wouldn't have gone to the hospital. Or maybe, he would have gone to the hospital and a second diagnosis wouldn't be skeptical of the first diagnosis as they usually are, and he wouldn't have received the right treatment.

No soul on earth has stories like this who aren't religious. Usually when most sick atheists go to the hospital for a second diagnosis, they aren't given the correct one, they are given the same one and die. Do you ever hear of atheists recovering in the hospital? No. That is because they never received a blessing.

- Craig

 

[TroutBum]

I will give Craig a pass because, after all, sometimes it can be hard to stay in character 24/7, +8.

Other than that, this thread has been excellent and has given me lot's to think about. I was happy to see the usual suspects show up and give their two cents, but I was also pleased to read some thoughts and discussion from people that I wouldn't have expected any answer, let alone a well thought out response. Now that it's been a few days and I've calmed down a bit, I would like to share my post-Labor Day thoughts:

I am convinced that a higher power stepped in to help me. Was it God? Was it the King of those aliens that live in my body? Was it Allah? Elton John? I don't know. I'm glad I don't know, actually, but I'm damn glad it happened. Was my buddy inspired? I think so. Did this "higher power" cause the ER at IMC to be full just for my benefit? Man, I hope not. Would I have ended up at LDS hospital regardless of my buddy's blessing? I'm not sure. Could I drive myself crazy by thinking of the "what if's"? Ya, probably. I do want to thank you all for posting here, and for the thoughts and good vibes sent my way. I appreciate the comments from the believers and the non-believers; they helped. It does a body/mind good to think outside of the box, and you guys provided the fodder for good thought and positive inner inspection. For that, I am grateful. And now that I think about it...

It's amazing how good music sounds now. It is amazing to just look at my kids and realize how precious they are. It's amazing how delicious good old fashioned salt tastes. How great it is to laugh, how great it is to be around family, and how great it is to be alive.

Thank you all for your posts here, they were great. I will now return to my regularly scheduled douchebaggery.

<3,

Trout.