Getting Traded
Banned
I was thinking the exact same thing. I think he would be better than Tinsley or Watson, and is still young and might improve.
Was anyone traded that you wanted on the Jazz?
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I was thinking the exact same thing. I think he would be better than Tinsley or Watson, and is still young and might improve.
fishonjazz
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Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
We all are. It seems like just a couple of years ago, we were debating the merits of trying to move up to get Redick or hoping he'd drop to #14. By comparison, it almost seems a lifetime ago to me since Ronnie Brewer played for Utah.
Hotdog
Well-Known Member
Tell me about it. Where the hell are the years going? They are flying by way too fast.
vegas
Well-Known Member
Sorry if this is long and a bit OT, but we have had so many redundant threads I didn't want to start a new one.
A couple of things. Jazz PR understand all is not well in Jazz land. They have been talking, tweeting, and arguing non-stop that a championship is the goal. The trouble is, it's hard for a fan to see that this ship is headed in that direction. It's very easy to see that money ball is the direction. I really want to believe that a championship is the primary goal, not a secondary goal.
Maybe they just can't come out and say it is, but not at any cost--gotta pay bills yadda yadda.
Regarding the non-trade of Al, Paul or even Raja:
It seems like any asset at this point is better than nothing. Now of course we don't want to use cap space, but remember that Hayward and Favors don't require cap space til 14/15, and Burks & Kanter in 15/16. So, perhaps there were no deals that netted an asset with a bad contract for a year, or we believe that we can do better with a S&T later. Keep in mind that S&T's require the other team to be under the cap after they sign their FA's. Also, The receiving team could just sign them to the same amount. S&T's may not be as common under the new cba. Even with Boozer we had to send a 2nd rounder, so a TPE costs us an asset in the future.
So are we signing Al and Paul? If not, a do we get a TPE? Am I supposed to believe that cap space gets us a key player in FA? Am I supposed to believe we are going to get a TPE or two in the offseason, then wait a year to see if we can send a few more assets to make use of it in a trade down the road? What does a TPE realistically get us?
Let's look at the Boozer TPE. We esentially traded Boozer a 2nd rounder, 2 firsts (#18, 2011 Donatas Montejunas and #20, 2012 Terrence Jones--they were top 9&10 protected) and Kosta Koufus for Al Jefferson. It's a good move because we are out from under AJ's salary sooner than we would have been Boozer, and neither were the guy to push us over the top. It bought us time, but it didn't have to be so long. At this point we have the cap flexibility, so everything we do should be a piece to use towards getting a superstar or high draft picks that become one.
The point is that it just became a lot more difficult to convert Al and/or Paul into an asset. IMO they were worth more last year.
I don't agree with the idea that AL or Paul are the guys to bring back next year. If we are serious about progression, Kanter and Favors have to surpass them, and it's gonna hit the fan when you ask one of those guys to be a 6th man, not to mention paying a bench guy big $.
I'm failing to find a path or vision that leads us to a championship. I hope KOL pull a rabbit out of their hat and prove me wrong by getting an asset from FA or S&T etc.
/venting
A couple of things. Jazz PR understand all is not well in Jazz land. They have been talking, tweeting, and arguing non-stop that a championship is the goal. The trouble is, it's hard for a fan to see that this ship is headed in that direction. It's very easy to see that money ball is the direction. I really want to believe that a championship is the primary goal, not a secondary goal.
Maybe they just can't come out and say it is, but not at any cost--gotta pay bills yadda yadda.
Regarding the non-trade of Al, Paul or even Raja:
It seems like any asset at this point is better than nothing. Now of course we don't want to use cap space, but remember that Hayward and Favors don't require cap space til 14/15, and Burks & Kanter in 15/16. So, perhaps there were no deals that netted an asset with a bad contract for a year, or we believe that we can do better with a S&T later. Keep in mind that S&T's require the other team to be under the cap after they sign their FA's. Also, The receiving team could just sign them to the same amount. S&T's may not be as common under the new cba. Even with Boozer we had to send a 2nd rounder, so a TPE costs us an asset in the future.
So are we signing Al and Paul? If not, a do we get a TPE? Am I supposed to believe that cap space gets us a key player in FA? Am I supposed to believe we are going to get a TPE or two in the offseason, then wait a year to see if we can send a few more assets to make use of it in a trade down the road? What does a TPE realistically get us?
Let's look at the Boozer TPE. We esentially traded Boozer a 2nd rounder, 2 firsts (#18, 2011 Donatas Montejunas and #20, 2012 Terrence Jones--they were top 9&10 protected) and Kosta Koufus for Al Jefferson. It's a good move because we are out from under AJ's salary sooner than we would have been Boozer, and neither were the guy to push us over the top. It bought us time, but it didn't have to be so long. At this point we have the cap flexibility, so everything we do should be a piece to use towards getting a superstar or high draft picks that become one.
The point is that it just became a lot more difficult to convert Al and/or Paul into an asset. IMO they were worth more last year.
I don't agree with the idea that AL or Paul are the guys to bring back next year. If we are serious about progression, Kanter and Favors have to surpass them, and it's gonna hit the fan when you ask one of those guys to be a 6th man, not to mention paying a bench guy big $.
I'm failing to find a path or vision that leads us to a championship. I hope KOL pull a rabbit out of their hat and prove me wrong by getting an asset from FA or S&T etc.
/venting
Repped. With the exception of the reactionary Deron trade, all franchise decisions have been made passively (Miles matching, Millsap matching, Wes Matthews, Kirilenko, Boozer, Bell, etc.) and now Jefferson. I have a very difficult time thinking that the Jazz would let Al and Paul walk and not feel like they were regressing. I see them pretty desperately trying to cling to and maintain what we have while going forward, which is why I expect them to pursue Al/Paul or try to pursue some replacement that will mindlessly be inserted into the starting lineup and put Kanter/Favors on the bench (I'm talking about Kaman and Brand). I see them as afraid of turning this team over to the young guys mostly because they actually like this incarnation of our team and think, "we haven't seen this team healthy and firing on all cylinders yet." We look at games like Ws against OKC and SA and see that as our potential and the rest of the season as an aberration and not the other way around.
Agree! Risk/reward was low/high. And anyone who thinks Foye is as good as Redick has never watched JJ play or they are just plain dumb. However, it can be argued that Foye is as good a value because Redick gets paid significantly more. I will admit that Foye has been a pleasant surprise. Give him a little time to get set and shoot and he can hit 40+% of his shots, but he makes no one better, and sucks on defense. This has improved some recently.
His agent said the bidding starts at $40mm/4 yrs. I want nothing to do with that.
mellow
Well-Known Member
4 bigs I like for the Jazz to play with Favors/Kanter. Landry, T. Robinson, Jason Thompson, Tyler Zeller. I thought Thompson would be the only one available.
I thought Sacramento would move a PF as the price of moving one of thier overpaid wings. I was shocked that it was Robinson and the best of three bad wing contracts. Houston did really well, only cost them Patterson (who I also like despite PKMs warnings).
I thought Sacramento would move a PF as the price of moving one of thier overpaid wings. I was shocked that it was Robinson and the best of three bad wing contracts. Houston did really well, only cost them Patterson (who I also like despite PKMs warnings).
I don't think anyone really thinks he will get a contract that big.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
I agree he won't get that, but he still may end up in the $8M range. Utah has always had to overpay for FA's. Redick at $8-$10M is NOT a good deal. Besides, we already have the SG rotation in Hayward and Burks, with Foye likely returning. I'm ok with those 3.
What we need to focus on is an upgrade at PG and finding an third big so Al AND Paul can be let go without any serious effort to re-sign them.