Welcome in the middle of rebuilding.
- Thread starter jazzfan1132
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underdog
Well-Known Member
It’s a downer to see how we cannot take advantage of Markkanen’s efficiency. We lose games because of it. Clarkson, THT, and Sexton all can move with the ball to the paint, but they can't kick it out (and even turn it over way too often). When they dribble to the paint, Lauri often moves to the 3-point line with his hands ready to catch a pass, but the pass never comes. 3>2. The best offensive teams in the NBA know this simple math. Boston’s entire offensive scheme is based on it. For this reason alone, no contender team in today’s NBA would give Clarkson, THT, or Sexton starter minutes.
THT is 10th in potential assist this year. He's not the issue. He is setting the table.
Tremendous Upside
Well-Known Member
He negates the good things he does with his horrific shooting percentages (and shot selection).
As someone else said, a THT with more of an understanding what his weaknesses are would be a much better player.
FrenchJazzFa
Well-Known Member
Have to be realistic, none of our players except Lauri are starters in a contender team. JC could be a perfect 6th men in one of them. We are clearly in the middle of rebuilding. How we handle this part is the main question? Using our asset to get one or 2 good players ( not easy to get considering our market). Tanking one year to get a top draft players ( someone like Sarr). DA make for me until now the easy part, dislocating a team who failed to win. The difficult part start now.
underdog
Well-Known Member
Well, THT has gotten better at passing, but he still has a long way to be a playmaker and a starter on a contender team. Playmaking is mostly about what goes on between the ears and less about a physical skill. When THT attacks the rim, kicking the ball out to an open 3-point shooter rarely enters his mind. Basketball is a game of probabilities, and considering THT’s poor shooting efficiency (one of the worst in the league at the rim), a pass to an open 3-point shooter, especially to Lauri who shoots over 40% from behind the 3-point line, would obviously be the right play for our team when it is available.
This is how a good playmaker does it:
https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=438&GameID=0022300001&Season=2023-24&flag=1&title=Smith 26' 3PT Jump Shot (9 PTS) (Haliburton 9 AST)
https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=594&GameID=0022300001&Season=2023-24&flag=1&title=Hield 26' 3PT Jump Shot (14 PTS) (Haliburton 13 AST)
And this is THT (when Lauri is open behind the 3-point line to receive a pass):
https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=715&GameID=0022300130&Season=2023-24&flag=1&title=MISS Horton-Tucker 2' Driving Reverse Layup
https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=704&GameID=0022300130&Season=2023-24&flag=1&title=Horton-Tucker Offensive Foul Turnover (P2.T18)
https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=433&GameID=0022300130&Season=2023-24&flag=1&title=MISS Horton-Tucker 8' Fadeaway Jumper
https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=655&GameID=0022300130&Season=2023-24&flag=1&title=MISS Horton-Tucker 3' Driving Layup
You can find better examples if you look other games. These are only from the most recent game for each.
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10th in potential assist, would be top 5 if he had more minutes. He's a playmaker. Stop hating.
And holy **** at some of those "examples".
Like the layup THT misses at the 5:15 mark in the 4th quarter.
Who the **** is he supposed to pass to? He missed a layup, it happens. It successfully resulted in an easy put back for John Collins because of the defensive attention he drew. That's playmaking in the 21st century. You have to be a scorer to be a playmaker.
It's ****ing crazy how some people expect perfection out of a 22 year old playing as a starting PG for the first time in his career. Yes, THT is not ****ing Tyrese ****ing Haliburton. Good god.
Like the layup THT misses at the 5:15 mark in the 4th quarter.
Who the **** is he supposed to pass to? He missed a layup, it happens. It successfully resulted in an easy put back for John Collins because of the defensive attention he drew. That's playmaking in the 21st century. You have to be a scorer to be a playmaker.
It's ****ing crazy how some people expect perfection out of a 22 year old playing as a starting PG for the first time in his career. Yes, THT is not ****ing Tyrese ****ing Haliburton. Good god.
Missing a layup is now considered playmaking? Holy ****. You’ve hit an all-time low.
Jazz traded Conley for a future Lakers pick. His talent on the roster hasn't been replaced.
Jazz own the Cavs draft for 5 years, but none of this talent has been added to the roster. Lauri was a sweet pickup though.
Jazz own the Twolves' draft for 4 more years. Keyonte is only the first pick that has been made, and he's just a rookie.
Jazz traded Royce O'Neale for a pick that became Brice Sensabaugh. He hasn't played yet, so his talent on the roster hasn't been replaced yet.
Jazz have torn down their previous roster and added a ton of assets to improve themselves. They just haven't spent any of those assets, and they haven't replaced much of the talent they lost. Hence, I'd argue that this is still the beginning of the rebuild rather than the middle. The middle of the rebuild might be the end of the 25/26 season after the new young talent from the 25 draft starts to show what they can become.
If you look at OKC's rebuild, which arguably is going very well, that began in the summer of 2019 when they traded Paul George. They picked up SGA in that trade, but I think he's the only hold-over from that era on the roster.
In 2020, OKC added Pokusevski.
In 2021, OKC added Josh Giddey.
In 2022, OKC added Chet Holmgren and Jalen Williams.
In 2023, OKC added Cason Wallace.
So now they've drafted talent from 4 down years to add to SGA. They won't be contenders until that young talent becomes more seasoned. OKC also has additional draft capital that they can use to improve themselves.
Also note: The sole reason that the OKC rebuild is going well, aside from starting with SGA, is because they had one really good draft out of the last four. The Jazz need to have a draft where they knock it out of the park and acquire at least one, preferably two, star-level talents.
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Tremendous Upside
Well-Known Member
So how many losing/rebuilding seasons in a row will this fanbase accept?
If we look at the Dennis Lindsey era as a precedent, then probably 4 or 5....at least. DL really took over in 2013, and his masterwork came to fruition in 2021.
In 2014, the Jazz won 25 games.
In 2015, the Jazz won 38 games. <----YOU ARE HERE.
In 2016, the Jazz won 40 games.
In 2017, the Jazz won 51 games.
In 2018, the Jazz won 48 games.
In 2019, the Jazz won 50 games.
In 2014/15, the Jazz had a mixed roster that included guys like rookie Dante Exum, Trey Burke, Alec Burks, Rodney Hood, Gordon Hayward, Derrick Favors, Enes Kanter, Rudy Gobert and Trevor Booker. That's probably comparable to the talent the Jazz have right now, especially if they move Clarkson and Olynyk mid-season. That team won 38 games, drafted #12 and picked up Trey Lyles.
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