Well...so much for trading AK.

[billyshelby]

you're talking extension? oh man, jazzfanz would go nuts.

but i'll play along. let's say he shows up like a new man and they're ready to get him more involved and they sit down to discuss a 3-year extension. how much?

3 year starts at 7 if the Jazz want to be cheap, 8 realistic, and goes to 9. My guess is they would offer 4 @ 32 and hope all the history convinces him to sign. Odom doesn't even have a guaranteed 4th year so they could hard line him at 3 with a team option that they could float with precedent. The question, to my mind, becomes whether you'd rather pay less per year for 4, or guarantee that 4th year to get even less as an annual. I'd go 4, but I'm guessing KOC would rather go 3 at higher per year salaries.

 

[vj_74]

I guess it depends on what you call "big factor". While the injuries of the last two seasons are a big negative, it doesn't relegate Kirilenko to the MLE. He started every game of the first two playoff seasons of the past four years, and he averaged nearly 10 points per game and more than 2 blocks per game in those playoff tournaments.

Meaningless stats. How many of those playoff series we could'nt have won without AK? In how many of those series did he actually make an impact? In how many he wasa the X-factor? He was either whining in a corner or was the 5th option at best when we were winning all those series.
Stop your stats obsession and actually WATCH some freaking games.

Even Mathews averaged 10+ pts for the Jazz and was a starter in the playoffs, so does that mean the Jazz should have matched or even paid more to Mathews this offseason? He also played all 82 games last season, to boot and was graded the best defender.

AK can easily go back to Russia for big money or to the Nets for reasonable money. He doesn't have to right a wrong salarywise when it was the Jazz who were in error for giving him so much money.

Right, so let him do that if he wants more than 7-8 mil a year. Take a hike to Russia or to the Nets

He's not a max guy, but he's not an MLE guy, either.

He is certainly not a MAX guy and it is certainly HIGHLY debatable if he is worth more than the mid-level.

 

[Lakers_Slapper]

This is from Hollingers Chat:



I know KOC is smart and won't trade him for nothing. But this means its going to be much harder to get any value from him. Maybe the best thing is just to let him expire, and then see if he wants to return on the cheap. If not then we have capspace for a pretty good free agent.

Wow, KOC is smart?? This deserves its own topic. But playing out AK's contract would definately be the best thing for the team. We've been carrying his overpayed contract for so long, what's another year?? Also ak can provide some steller defence. It makes no sense to trade him now and get caught up in another hefty contract for someone else and just drag out this massive salary for 1 or 2 more years. Let him play, let it run out, and let's hope that no one refers to KOC as being smart. The reason we got Al Jefferson is because of Al's agent and maybe a little KOC. If he was smart he wouldn't screw up 3 times per season.

 

[vj_74]

Forget 4 years. Signing AK to 4 after his 10th season, with all his back problems and proneness to injury is absurd. KOC and the entire Jazz organization know it, including AK. AK has 2 more productive years in him. Anything over that will be a bonus to AK's retirement fund. .

Apparently one good season in a contract year from AK is enough for some homers here to hand him a 4 yr 36 mil contract.

Never mind the past. Never mind the future.

 

[InGameStrategy]

Meaningless stats. How many of those playoff series we could'nt have won without AK? In how many of those series did he actually make an impact? In how many he wasa the X-factor? He was either whining in a corner or was the 5th option at best when we were winning all those series.
Stop your stats obsession and actually WATCH some freaking games.

Speaking of Asperger's, you've started your hate-tinged rant again. The argument could go the other way: despite feeling marginalized in the offense, he still put up those numbers.

Like many Jazz fans (and the coaching staff sometimes, too), you are focusing too much on offense. AK has been #5 among starters in the number of FGAs. This is behind a nontraditional center who is a better offensive player than defender, a PF who cares about points more than defense, a PG who can both pass and score, and a rotisserie of wings who either played the baseline or shot too much (Matthews not being one of them; Fisher yes being one of them).

Even Mathews averaged 10+ pts for the Jazz and was a starter in the playoffs, so does that mean the Jazz should have matched or even paid more to Mathews this offseason? He also played all 82 games last season, to boot and was graded the best defender.

It's laughable that you fell into the trap of citing Matthews, who shot below 40% in the playoffs.

Who graded Matthews the best defender, btw?

Right, so let him do that if he wants more than 7-8 mil a year. Take a hike to Russia or to the Nets

Evidently you would like that. But unless Elder Hayward far exceeds expectations defensively, Kirilenko's departure would put a huge hole defensively in the Jazz's wing rotation. Bell can't do it on his own, and Miles hasn't exactly been a model defender.

And if he wants substantially more than 7 or 8 mil per year, I'd let him walk, too. Funny that you originally were ranting about the MLE, and now you're saying 7 or 8 million. Just sayin'.

He is certainly not a MAX guy and it is certainly HIGHLY debatable if he is worth more than the mid-level.

The salaries of most of the top 20 non-rookie-contract SFs say more than the MLE.

Haven't seen many preview SF rankings yet, but this 2009 source had Kirilenko well within that ranking range.
https://www.thoughtsfromthejockstra...2009/top-10-nba-small-forwards-2009-2010.html

 

[theNBAnerd]

billy - setting aside for a minute what is "fair market value" for AK and all discussions about how he might impact his value by playing well/poorly this season...

jazz fans would riot if they signed him to a 4-yr 32M extension right now. most fans are so ready to get out from under AK. not me. i'm one of the few people who still holds out hope that the jazz will make a conscious decision to use him the right way and get him back to being the odom-esque X-factor he could have been all along. (that was a crazy sentence structure.) i think they'd need to see him to some degree (pre-season?) and know that he was ready to play that role before they hitched their cart to that horse for another 4 years.

 

[billyshelby]

billy - setting aside for a minute what is "fair market value" for AK and all discussions about how he might impact his value by playing well/poorly this season...

jazz fans would riot if they signed him to a 4-yr 32M extension right now. most fans are so ready to get out from under AK. not me. i'm one of the few people who still holds out hope that the jazz will make a conscious decision to use him the right way and get him back to being the odom-esque X-factor he could have been all along. (that was a crazy sentence structure.) i think they'd need to see him to some degree (pre-season?) and know that he was ready to play that role before they hitched their cart to that horse for another 4 years.

I'm sure there would be backlash, I just don't think KOC cares. And I don't doubt they want to see AK in preseason, but more for practical reasons. A) They want to see he's healthy before they sign him and B) They want the whole summer market to dry out in the very odd chance a deal popped up. But the other reason I think they should go after him early is their cap situation. They can extend AK AND get the MLE, or lose AK and get the MLE. I'd much rather have AK and then the MLE to add a player than be forced to use the MLE to replace AK. I think that could be explained pretty easily to fans. The only alternative is to let AK drop from the books, and then wait another year for Okur to drop off before they actually have Cap Space to make a run at players. Correct me if I'm wrong on the Cap stuff.

 

[theNBAnerd]

oh, don't get me wrong billy... i agree with everything you're saying. i'm just saying that i don't think most fans agree with us. most fans would trade AK right now for a second-round pick and the myth of financial flexibility, just because they think he's overpaid. (he is, but that's not the point.) if AK is compensated at the right price point AND involved at the right level, he can have a PROFOUND impact on the success of this team.

from the way KOC is talking, it sounds like they might be starting to think about involving him the right way, so ya... if we could lock him into a 3-year deal in the right price range, i'm on board. but i foresee pitchforks and torches outside KOC's office if it happens.

 

[Gyp Rosetti]

oh, don't get me wrong billy... i agree with everything you're saying. i'm just saying that i don't think most fans agree with us. most fans would trade AK right now for a second-round pick and the myth of financial flexibility, just because they think he's overpaid. (he is, but that's not the point.) if AK is compensated at the right price point AND involved at the right level, he can have a PROFOUND impact on the success of this team.

from the way KOC is talking, it sounds like they might be starting to think about involving him the right way, so ya... if we could lock him into a 3-year deal in the right price range, i'm on board. but i foresee pitchforks and torches outside KOC's office if it happens.

When's the last time he's had a profound impact on this team? 'Nuff said.

 

[theNBAnerd]

january & february.

as in, when the team went on that huge tear.

'nuff said.

 

[gregbroncs]

oh, don't get me wrong billy... i agree with everything you're saying. i'm just saying that i don't think most fans agree with us. most fans would trade AK right now for a second-round pick and the myth of financial flexibility, just because they think he's overpaid. (he is, but that's not the point.) if AK is compensated at the right price point AND involved at the right level, he can have a PROFOUND impact on the success of this team.

from the way KOC is talking, it sounds like they might be starting to think about involving him the right way, so ya... if we could lock him into a 3-year deal in the right price range, i'm on board. but i foresee pitchforks and torches outside KOC's office if it happens.

I think your wrong on the most fans part. I think AK has a good # of haters. But a lot of the other fans are more upset by the size of his contract than by Ak himself. I for one have always liked AK the player. But that contract has been a real tough pill to swallow. Ak at the right amount of money and he would not be taking near the amount of heat he currently does.

 

[David Stern]

january & february.

as in, when the team went on that huge tear.

'nuff said.

And the regular season matters to us now? I could care less about what AK does in the regular season, its about the playoffs for me.