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What are we trying to accomplish?

The Thriller

The Thriller

Well-Known Member
this seems to be a reoccurring theme here, but what are we trying to accomplish?

A few years ago, it seemed like we were merely trying to churn a buck. We knew that we weren't close to contending. However, that didn't stop us from playing veterans big minutes, standing pat with our roster, and swinging for the last seeds of the playoffs. Why? We wanted to make a few bucks.

This summer it looked like we were truly going to tank. I recall hearing Dennis Lindsey admit that this was going to be a rebuilding year; the success of which wasn't based on W's or L's but in player development (especially defensively). Unfortunately, this doesn't appear to be the case.

In the last month or so, we've seen the reemergence of veterans. Marvin and Jefferson playing big roles with Biedrins and Rush filling in when needed. Gobert, one of the brightest youngsters was sent to the D-League. We are trending towards a mid-lotto team rather than truly tanking.

So what changed?

Is Ty Corbin trying to save his job?
Did Dennis and Greg panic and gave Corbin the green light to play the vets for fear of being historically bad?
Or is there a split between management and coaching? Does management want one thing (tanking) while coaching wants another (wins to save face)?

I got to be honest, the last thing we need is another role player through the draft. We need to be in the top 2-3. We need to draft a super star, especially if we aren't going to resign Hayward. The plan this summer was to tank. We shouldn't abandon that plan.

Stay the course.
 
Well I believe there's a natural occurrence that when a team is losing change must be made to act as a scapegoat and to try new things. This can come from line up changes, etc, but it usually is made by firing the coach. I believe we could have been playing our young guys (starting and what not) the main minutes if we had fired our coach. Because we haven't we've had to make other changes to try and make something work. And sadly it has worked better because the young players are inexperienced.

I also think that if you throw the young guys, depending on the level of development with no structure, into the fire, that it could have a bad effect on them. Gobert might have been in over his head playing more minutes. So it might be a good thing that he can learn a little in the d-leaague. I would rather have him getting about 15 minutes a night on our team though.
 
The Thriller said:
This summer it looked like we were truly going to tank. I recall hearing Dennis Lindsey admit that this was going to be a rebuilding year; the success of which wasn't based on W's or L's but in player development (especially defensively). Unfortunately, this doesn't appear to be the case.

In the last month or so, we've seen the reemergence of veterans. Marvin and Jefferson playing big roles with Biedrins and Rush filling in when needed. Gobert, one of the brightest youngsters was sent to the D-League. We are trending towards a mid-lotto team rather than truly tanking.

So what changed?
Click to expand...
Maybe just trying to build trade value for the marketable vets the Jazz have.
 
The truth is Corbin sucks. He can't win when they should've. Now they win when they shouldn't.
 
Well, we are more then 1/4th through the season and we have the second worst record. I think if you are a wise man you can see what gives us the most benefit given our position and the potential reward.
 
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fallenchicken said:
We're still the second worst team in the NBA, you donkeys.
Click to expand...

Yea exactly!! We're still tanking.

And I dont want the Jazz to have the worst record. I don't want to see 25 point losses every night It's disappointing.

Just want to see my team play some ball. Btw I don't blame Corbin for DLeague thing. Gobert and Clark need playing time. Not a bad move.
 
The Thriller said:
this seems to be a reoccurring theme here, but what are we trying to accomplish?

A few years ago, it seemed like we were merely trying to churn a buck. We knew that we weren't close to contending. However, that didn't stop us from playing veterans big minutes, standing pat with our roster, and swinging for the last seeds of the playoffs. Why? We wanted to make a few bucks.

This summer it looked like we were truly going to tank. I recall hearing Dennis Lindsey admit that this was going to be a rebuilding year; the success of which wasn't based on W's or L's but in player development (especially defensively). Unfortunately, this doesn't appear to be the case.

In the last month or so, we've seen the reemergence of veterans. Marvin and Jefferson playing big roles with Biedrins and Rush filling in when needed. Gobert, one of the brightest youngsters was sent to the D-League. We are trending towards a mid-lotto team rather than truly tanking.

So what changed?

Is Ty Corbin trying to save his job?
Did Dennis and Greg panic and gave Corbin the green light to play the vets for fear of being historically bad?
Or is there a split between management and coaching? Does management want one thing (tanking) while coaching wants another (wins to save face)?

I got to be honest, the last thing we need is another role player through the draft. We need to be in the top 2-3. We need to draft a super star, especially if we aren't going to resign Hayward. The plan this summer was to tank. We shouldn't abandon that plan.

Stay the course.
Click to expand...

so what. we got 2 top 3 picks already on this team. full of lottery picks.
either jazz is bad at talent evaluation. or bad at player development.

either way it point s out that jazz will screw up this top 2-3 pick AGAIN!
 
fallenchicken said:
We're still the second worst team in the NBA, you donkeys.
Click to expand...

And we finished the hardest part of our season with Burke, our best player, missing for a bulk of it.

With Burke and the vets, this team isn't then2nd worst team in the league. They might fall into the 5th-9th. That would be a disaster of a year. Plus, we aren't figuring out anything about some of our players. Ex: can kanter and favors coexist?
 
Doublea said:
Well I believe there's a natural occurrence that when a team is losing change must be made to act as a scapegoat and to try new things. This can come from line up changes, etc, but it usually is made by firing the coach. I believe we could have been playing our young guys (starting and what not) the main minutes if we had fired our coach. Because we haven't we've had to make other changes to try and make something work. And sadly it has worked better because the young players are inexperienced.

I also think that if you throw the young guys, depending on the level of development with no structure, into the fire, that it could have a bad effect on them. Gobert might have been in over his head playing more minutes. So it might be a good thing that he can learn a little in the d-leaague. I would rather have him getting about 15 minutes a night on our team though.
Click to expand...

Had Corbin been fired and someone like Hornacek been hired, we could have easily explained to the new coach that management had his back and to not worry about job security while tanking. Corbin is in his last year of his deal and is either trying to retain his job or trying out for other teams. As a result, the vets will play big mins to try to keep the W's coming.
 
The Thriller said:
And we finished the hardest part of our season with Burke, our best player, missing for a bulk of it.

With Burke and the vets, this team isn't then2nd worst team in the league. They might fall into the 5th-9th. That would be a disaster of a year. Plus, we aren't figuring out anything about some of our players. Ex: can kanter and favors coexist?
Click to expand...

this
 
DutchJazzer said:
so what. we got 2 top 3 picks already on this team. full of lottery picks.
either jazz is bad at talent evaluation. or bad at player development.

either way it point s out that jazz will screw up this top 2-3 pick AGAIN!
Click to expand...

This draft is much different (way better talent) than the kanter and favors drafts
 
Nothing has changed. The Jazz are in a youth movement but that doesn't mean players getting minutes regardless of how they produce. Having better players sit while those who don't produce get the majority of minutes is the wrong message on any team. The Jazz are also about saving cap space for players they decide they want long term. Both of these mean a team will have a lot more losses than wins but does not mean they are trying to tank. In fact, most teams that "tank" save that for the last 20-25 games. You don't create a healthy culture by throwing away a season. My guess is the Jazz FO will be delighted if TB is good enough to create more W's and I won't be surprised if they are interested in resigning Marvin if he will come back at the right price.
 
As far as a few years ago: The Jazz, I think were trying to win it all with Boozer, DWill, Memo. BUT, AK prevented them from doing so, due to salary cap problems.

Then Boozer left and the Jazz went all Cleveland and desperate to keep DWill, hence the Al trade, Bell, letting Matthews walk, etc.

Then Lindsey came aboard and the Jazz prepared to tank, but went with vets last year to make some cash.

Now the tank has happened. Lindsey tried to set this team up to lose, but the problem is, Corbin can't try to lose, his future employment depends on it (with or without the Jazz). BUT, the biggest issue with the tank is this: Burke has developed a lot quicker and is better than we thought.

Now, I'm okay with the vets getting minutes, because I want to protect Burke. He is my centerpiece of the rebuild. I'm okay with Gobert going to the DLeague, and maybe it is because I'm a Utah fan, but you don't want to injure Gobert by playing him too much in the NBA when his body isn't ready. The DL solves this problem. He can play and work on his body at the same time.

Here is the issue: Marvin and Jefferson and Burks are playing better than you thought they would. I think Lindsey has to move 1-2 of those three. Marvin probably gets you ok returns, Jefferson probably gets you a second rounder, and Burks probably gets you the best returns.

The next issue is if Burks gets you the best returns, who do you want your future staring SG to be? Burks or Hayward? If it is Burks, then you move Hayward this year. If it is Hayward, then you move Burks this year. So, you play Burks and Burke together to see how they fit, because Burke is much more valuable to a team than Burks is. Then you trade one of those two. If you still keep winning, then you try to move Jefferson. I don't want to trade Marvin, because I want him back next year. He is the perfect vet to come off the bench and play 3 or 4 at a good price.

It's a process, and you need to tank this year, without killing Burke or trading away the wrong SG.
 
green said:
As far as a few years ago: The Jazz, I think were trying to win it all with Boozer, DWill, Memo. BUT, AK prevented them from doing so, due to salary cap problems.

Then Boozer left and the Jazz went all Cleveland and desperate to keep DWill, hence the Al trade, Bell, letting Matthews walk, etc.

Then Lindsey came aboard and the Jazz prepared to tank, but went with vets last year to make some cash.

Now the tank has happened. Lindsey tried to set this team up to lose, but the problem is, Corbin can't try to lose, his future employment depends on it (with or without the Jazz). BUT, the biggest issue with the tank is this: Burke has developed a lot quicker and is better than we thought.

Now, I'm okay with the vets getting minutes, because I want to protect Burke. He is my centerpiece of the rebuild. I'm okay with Gobert going to the DLeague, and maybe it is because I'm a Utah fan, but you don't want to injure Gobert by playing him too much in the NBA when his body isn't ready. The DL solves this problem. He can play and work on his body at the same time.

Here is the issue: Marvin and Jefferson and Burks are playing better than you thought they would. I think Lindsey has to move 1-2 of those three. Marvin probably gets you ok returns, Jefferson probably gets you a second rounder, and Burks probably gets you the best returns.

The next issue is if Burks gets you the best returns, who do you want your future staring SG to be? Burks or Hayward? If it is Burks, then you move Hayward this year. If it is Hayward, then you move Burks this year. So, you play Burks and Burke together to see how they fit, because Burke is much more valuable to a team than Burks is. Then you trade one of those two. If you still keep winning, then you try to move Jefferson. I don't want to trade Marvin, because I want him back next year. He is the perfect vet to come off the bench and play 3 or 4 at a good price.

It's a process, and you need to tank this year, without killing Burke or trading away the wrong SG.
Click to expand...

I would center a rebuild around our upcoming draft pick. That means first of all losing at all costs and secondly to secure a decent bench. Pgs are a dime a dozen in the NBA and Burke will always be an average starting pg. Curry is an incredible player and his team is in the lotto right now. Don't build around a PG it won't get you results.
 
green said:
Now the tank has happened. Lindsey tried to set this team up to lose, but the problem is, Corbin can't try to lose, his future employment depends on it (with or without the Jazz). BUT, the biggest issue with the tank is this: Burke has developed a lot quicker and is better than we thought.
Click to expand...

As much as I rag on Corbin you have to acknowledge that he is in a lousy situation. He has no contract next year and he is expected to lose.

When I think of two of the biggest tank jobs of the last 20 years - GS a couple of years ago and San Antonion in 96-97, the head coach got to keep his job the following season. It's entirely possible Corbin will have to go looking for a job next year fresh off a 60 loss season on his resume.
 
fishonjazz said:
This draft is much different (way better talent) than the kanter and favors drafts
Click to expand...
SO!?!?!?
yet
deron williams - cp3 debacle(wheter you agree that deron at the time was the right choice or not, jazz picked the wrong player or sucked at developing the better player)
kawai leanord burks debacle(whether it is talent evaluation or development).
the gordon hawyard vs geroge paul debacle (whether it is talent evaluation or development)
no matter how deep or non deep the draft is jazz track record at either talent evalutaion or talent development is NOT GOD


either way **** TANKING
**** THE DARFT!!!!1!!

start developing the talent WE DO HAVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
DutchJazzer said:
SO!?!?!?
yet
deron williams - cp3 debacle(wheter you agree that deron at the time was the right choice or not, jazz picked the wrong player or sucked at developing the better player)
kawai leanord burks debacle(whether it is talent evaluation or development).
the gordon hawyard vs geroge paul debacle (whether it is talent evaluation or development)
no matter how deep or non deep the draft is jazz track record at either talent evalutaion or talent development is NOT GOD


either way **** TANKING
**** THE DARFT!!!!1!!

start developing the talent WE DO HAVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...

Easy on the Red Bull my friend.
 
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