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What do you think Smith, Ainge, Wade and Zantacs are thinking right now?

OKC timely traded star players.
Jazz made sure they don't have such a path.
It happens.
It's just that a our long standing series of mistakes are extremely expensive and hard to overcome in the NBA.
Oh we have that path available.... we don't have the stones to take it though.

We are headed for the D Will Jefferson squad and then we will trade Donovan and dive into the modern version of the Ty Corbin era. It will be so much fun.
 
One might have said that you must trade Rudy because Hayward left, but if you did that you would have missed out on a huge opportunity to win a championship. I would put these last 3 years as the greatest opportunity this franchise has had to win a title despite their failures on the court and in the FO.

Really good post. I especially liked this part. Such a great point.

Donovan is only 25. If he wants to be here, you don't trade him. Doesn't mean we keep him forever, but there is no reason to trade him if he wants to be here.

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I’d say a lot of this question about rebuilding really misses the mark. We’re current way better than our performances. We can talk about roster building and the bones of this roster and say we’re not really there, but I don’t buy that. Nobody would have said the Celtics are there earlier this season and now people are talking about them as legitimate contenders. What’s different structurally? Nothing, really, aside from a deadline move. They just started winning and playing really good. I don’t buy the idea that such and such team does or doesn’t have formula when our takes on who’s a contender is based on how they play over a stretch.

If you look at all the games we were in that we couldn’t close out or the games we were up big and blew the lead, it’s a lot like looking at game outcomes on 50/50 balls. You can appeal to one or two games where you can say that the 50/50 balls didn’t go your way, but when you start piling those up, it suggests that there’s some other variable at play that’s making those 50/50 balls not really being about chance. We have flaws that get magnified if those defeats, but every team has flaws. I don’t believe our underachieving is simply that we can’t defend, though that’s definitely a variable. You have to find ways to win games and each game will be different. We find ways to lose games. I believe we have enough talent to find ways to win the majority of these games despite our weaknesses.

One weakness is the lack of rebounding when Rudy contests. How many games have been lost this way in the clutch? This is an easy remedy. Not a complete fix, but we can do a lot better. The first is the coaching staff recognizing this pattern. They have not. If they have, it hasn’t been addressed at all, whether through strategy or substitution. This is on the FO, as well. We can even see how getting a throw-in journeyman in a trade now magically gives you this possibility with Juancho. Does Quin close with him? No. He closes with 18 straight minutes of JC.

Then there’s the guard perimeter defense. We didn’t address it after Murray ended our season. We didn’t address it after Reggie Jackson became an all star. Both the FO and coaching staff pretended Royce was “good enough.” We see now that dumb luck of COVID forced their hand at landing a guy that was floating out there that nobody else picked up who we all see could come in and play a role that improves our weaknesses and doesn’t really give anything up in the trade off.

If you can find guys like Juancho and House when you’re not even looking for them, you can’t say we aren’t able to make improvements.

We are way better than how we’re performing. I think we definitely can be a legitimate contender without major acquisitions in player personnel. But the FO has handed a problem to the coach that he has exacerbated and made worse, and it leading to embarrassing losses has fed back onto the players to where the team psychology is poisoned from a learned helplessness facilitated by the FO and coaching staff.

I don’t think this is fully appreciated and I don’t think the FO or the coach realize how close we really are and how this unique opportunity is being squandered largely as a result of their own doing. Since we don’t recognize this, we’re prone to make dumb moves that lead to a really long stretch of not having championship hopes. It’s been 24 years since we’ve been to the finals. 15 years since we had a fluke WCF appearance. It could be a long, long time and I detest the “aw shucks” attitude of the FO and coaching staff and not taking this serious enough to recognize and address the issues, and for them to not realize how close we really are and settle for “well may we this will be good enough, we’ve got time, let’s just see how it goes.”

We can tank, retool, rebuild, whatever. We absolutely dumb-lucked into the talents that Rudy and Donovan are. Putting together a team is really easy to **** up and we got really lucky here. Odds are not in our favor trying it again. Make this ************* work or ****ing resign.
 
I’d say a lot of this question about rebuilding really misses the mark. We’re current way better than our performances. We can talk about roster building and the bones of this roster and say we’re not really there, but I don’t buy that. Nobody would have said the Celtics are there earlier this season and now people are talking about them as legitimate contenders. What’s different structurally? Nothing, really, aside from a deadline move. They just started winning and playing really good. I don’t buy the idea that such and such team does or doesn’t have formula when our takes on who’s a contender is based on how they play over a stretch.

If you look at all the games we were in that we couldn’t close out or the games we were up big and blew the lead, it’s a lot like looking at game outcomes on 50/50 balls. You can appeal to one or two games where you can say that the 50/50 balls didn’t go your way, but when you start piling those up, it suggests that there’s some other variable at play that’s making those 50/50 balls not really being about chance. We have flaws that get magnified if those defeats, but every team has flaws. I don’t believe our underachieving is simply that we can’t defend, though that’s definitely a variable. You have to find ways to win games and each game will be different. We find ways to lose games. I believe we have enough talent to find ways to win the majority of these games despite our weaknesses.

One weakness is the lack of rebounding when Rudy contests. How many games have been lost this way in the clutch? This is an easy remedy. Not a complete fix, but we can do a lot better. The first is the coaching staff recognizing this pattern. They have not. If they have, it hasn’t been addressed at all, whether through strategy or substitution. This is on the FO, as well. We can even see how getting a throw-in journeyman in a trade now magically gives you this possibility with Juancho. Does Quin close with him? No. He closes with 18 straight minutes of JC.

Then there’s the guard perimeter defense. We didn’t address it after Murray ended our season. We didn’t address it after Reggie Jackson became an all star. Both the FO and coaching staff pretended Royce was “good enough.” We see now that dumb luck of COVID forced their hand at landing a guy that was floating out there that nobody else picked up who we all see could come in and play a role that improves our weaknesses and doesn’t really give anything up in the trade off.

If you can find guys like Juancho and House when you’re not even looking for them, you can’t say we aren’t able to make improvements.

We are way better than how we’re performing. I think we definitely can be a legitimate contender without major acquisitions in player personnel. But the FO has handed a problem to the coach that he has exacerbated and made worse, and it leading to embarrassing losses has fed back onto the players to where the team psychology is poisoned from a learned helplessness facilitated by the FO and coaching staff.

I don’t think this is fully appreciated and I don’t think the FO or the coach realize how close we really are and how this unique opportunity is being squandered largely as a result of their own doing. Since we don’t recognize this, we’re prone to make dumb moves that lead to a really long stretch of not having championship hopes. It’s been 24 years since we’ve been to the finals. 15 years since we had a fluke WCF appearance. It could be a long, long time and I detest the “aw shucks” attitude of the FO and coaching staff and not taking this serious enough to recognize and address the issues, and for them to not realize how close we really are and settle for “well may we this will be good enough, we’ve got time, let’s just see how it goes.”

We can tank, retool, rebuild, whatever. We absolutely dumb-lucked into the talents that Rudy and Donovan are. Putting together a team is really easy to **** up and we got really lucky here. Odds are not in our favor trying it again. Make this ************* work or ****ing resign.
I said similar things during the Greg/KOC era where I mentioned that their passivity and general carelessness and lack of being proactive was passively driving us into rebuilding. We brought back the same team three years in a row, getting bumped by the Lakers in the post-season each year in successively less games. It culminated in the Jerry/Deron problem and we ended up losing both those guys in a matter of two weeks.

Currently, we have a FO and coaching staff that has positioned another ******** Rudy vs. Donovan issue where the blood is really on the hands of the coaching staff and FO, but all the media is going to be looking at Rudy vs. Donovan, we’ll end up losing both, and we’ll have jack **** to show for it, just like the Sloan/DWill issue.
 
I said similar things during the Greg/KOC era where I mentioned that their passivity and general carelessness and lack of being proactive was passively driving us into rebuilding. We brought back the same team three years in a row, getting bumped by the Lakers in the post-season each year in successively less games. It culminated in the Jerry/Deron problem and we ended up losing both those guys in a matter of two weeks.

Currently, we have a FO and coaching staff that has positioned another ******** Rudy vs. Donovan issue where the blood is really on the hands of the coaching staff and FO, but all the media is going to be looking at Rudy vs. Donovan, we’ll end up losing both, and we’ll have jack **** to show for it, just like the Sloan/DWill issue.
This era (post Hayward) has two periods of dumbass inactivity. First was not trading one of Ricky or Favs when it was clear the best lineup involved a shooting 4. You can see if having a lights out shooter at guard next to Donovan works with the Favs/Rudy front court or keep Ricky but commit to a shooting 4. They needed to move on from Favs or Ricky earlier because then they did a pivot the other way and it was just too far.

Then as you mentioned... watching guards torch us all year... watching Murray set records... and then proclaiming that Cameo Star Miye Oni was the solution was ****ing hilarious. Ignoring it this last offseason (or more likely out of any ammo to make what they deem a great solution) was criminal. Gay met one need theoretically.

I think it is too late to save us now... In order this is our best options now:

- Keep Donovan and Rudy because they trust and like each other after having a come to Jesus moment.
- Trade both guys and tank the eff outta this B.
- Enter the Donovan and friends era.

There is another option where we keep Rudy and trade Donovan... but no way they consider it... right?
 
This era (post Hayward) has two periods of dumbass inactivity. First was not trading one of Ricky or Favs when it was clear the best lineup involved a shooting 4. You can see if having a lights out shooter at guard next to Donovan works with the Favs/Rudy front court or keep Ricky but commit to a shooting 4. They needed to move on from Favs or Ricky earlier because then they did a pivot the other way and it was just too far.

Then as you mentioned... watching guards torch us all year... watching Murray set records... and then proclaiming that Cameo Star Miye Oni was the solution was ****ing hilarious. Ignoring it this last offseason (or more likely out of any ammo to make what they deem a great solution) was criminal. Gay met one need theoretically.

I think it is too late to save us now... In order this is our best options now:

- Keep Donovan and Rudy because they trust and like each other after having a come to Jesus moment.
- Trade both guys and tank the eff outta this B.
- Enter the Donovan and friends era.

There is another option where we keep Rudy and trade Donovan... but no way they consider it... right?
 
We're just in a really tough spot. My choice would be to ty and re-tool around Rudy and Donovan, but that's much easier said than done. I don't think Conley, Bogey, Royce or JC have a lot of trade value...I think we would have to package them with draft picks to really get good players back, but we've given up so many picks already that we basically don't have any left to trade, at least not without completely mortgaging the future. Maybe we can find a way to offload Mike and JC or Bogey to create some cap space, but what free agents are going to come to Utah? And on top of all that, Rudy and Don don't like each other and don't enjoy playing together. The best option might be to just blow it all up, trade Rudy and Don, Mike, Bogey, JC and Royce and get us many draft picks and as much young talent as we possibly can. I'm almost certain the front office will choose the trade Rudy and keep Donovan, and if that's the case then I really hope it works and we can quickly build a competitive team around Donovan, but I'm very skeptical they will be successful in doing so.
 
We're just in a really tough spot. My choice would be to ty and re-tool around Rudy and Donovan, but that's much easier said than done. I don't think Conley, Bogey, Royce or JC have a lot of trade value...I think we would have to package them with draft picks to really get good players back, but we've given up so many picks already that we basically don't have any left to trade, at least not without completely mortgaging the future. Maybe we can find a way to offload Mike and JC or Bogey to create some cap space, but what free agents are going to come to Utah? And on top of all that, Rudy and Don don't like each other and don't enjoy playing together. The best option might be to just blow it all up, trade Rudy and Don, Mike, Bogey, JC and Royce and get us many draft picks and as much young talent as we possibly can. I'm almost certain the front office will choose the trade Rudy and keep Donovan, and if that's the case then I really hope it works and we can quickly build a competitive team around Donovan, but I'm very skeptical they will be successful in doing so.
Basically say you do the Atlanta deal and it is Capela, Collins, and Atlanta's pick for Rudy... you basically pray Capela gives you 75-80% of what Rudy does... hope Collins stays healthy and has another jump in his development, and you pray that pick becomes the Duarte, Halliburton, Herro, Bam type of mid first that immediately hits. Its not super crazy I guess. The middle part of this draft is viewed as no bueno but I think there are still guys that could be good there.

You also hope Don wants to be here. You hire Johnny Bryant as the head coach.

I think you have to trade Mike... I think the cliff is next year for him... the type of deal I am thinking is doable is with Washington where they send KCP and Avidija for Mike. They need some pg help and have some big wing forwards they like... We hope Deni takes a big third year leap... he's already an excellent defender and he's very young. Keep Bogey or move him if there is a solid offer.


DM
KCP
Deni/Bogey
Collins
Capela

Does that get you excited?
 
Basically say you do the Atlanta deal and it is Capela, Collins, and Atlanta's pick for Rudy... you basically pray Capela gives you 75-80% of what Rudy does... hope Collins stays healthy and has another jump in his development, and you pray that pick becomes the Duarte, Halliburton, Herro, Bam type of mid first that immediately hits. Its not super crazy I guess. The middle part of this draft is viewed as no bueno but I think there are still guys that could be good there.

You also hope Don wants to be here. You hire Johnny Bryant as the head coach.

I think you have to trade Mike... I think the cliff is next year for him... the type of deal I am thinking is doable is with Washington where they send KCP and Avidija for Mike. They need some pg help and have some big wing forwards they like... We hope Deni takes a big third year leap... he's already an excellent defender and he's very young. Keep Bogey or move him if there is a solid offer.


DM
KCP
Deni/Bogey
Collins
Capela

Does that get you excited?
If we are trading with Atlanta, I'm demanding Huerter too. Here's why:

Capella does not have positive value with his new contract. His contract is pretty big for what he provides.

Collins is unhappy there. He has good value but not great value. Some would say he's overpaid.

Rudy has great value. Sure he makes a lot, but he drastically helps that team address their issues.

So yeah, I would demand Huerter in that deal. Sure we could take a late teen lottery pick or two, but we need to demand the proven player. Rudy is worth that much more than Collins at this point and time.

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