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What Happened to Katie?

Joe Bagadonuts said:
It would be way, way, way easier for everyone if we just relabeled the rooms Penis and Vagina so that there is really no debate about which room each person belongs in. It seems to me that the left is apparently getting their jollys out of creating chaos where it simply doesn't need to exist. I can only assume that they believe that pushing this issue will help in motivating their base.
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What about people born with both a penis and vagina? What about people born with neither?
 
Broncster said:
Not sure why a female or a male seeing a penis is harmful for them or dangerous. The only reason why it would be is because they were told it was harmful for them. Seeing people naked is not harmful.

If your daughter understand body parts and showers around body parts they will be just fine and unharmed.

Are you afraid of your son showering near a vagina? Are you afraid of your son seeing or being around another penis? Are you afraid of your son or daughter seeing knee caps, ears or even heaven forbid a tailbone? Body parts needing to be covered up is simply arbitrary. Other societies have deemed different body parts as something to be hidden. Our society didnt use to like men having their shirts off because they found it offensive to see topless men. That changed and no one blinks twice when you see a man at the beach with his top off. Just like in societies where a penis or vagina uncovered is no big deal, no one reacts when they see one or cares.

Maybe parents should teach their kids what the body parts are and use their correct names. Teach them that they are allowed to pick who touches their body and who doesnt. That each person can choose who they are and what they do and to each their own. That every person and every body deserves respect and that they are all different and unique and that is okay. Teach them to respect themselves and others. Seems like that would solve most our problems with these "issues."

In jr high kids are mean and make jokes about bodies. This is due to our society and parenting. Additionally in jr high and high school the kids who are sexually assaulted and who are teased are most often boys doing it to other boys. Girls also do it to each other. Most of the boys and girls teasing and doing the assaulting are straight as well. So if your concern is about your kid being teased or abused then having a trans gendered kid (which is highly unlikely) around has very little possibility if any of them teasing or abusing your kid. It is far more likely with kids that the odd one who is uncomfortable with their body and feels out of place is going to be abused and teased. The minority group does not generally abuse the majority in kids locker room.

I do believe our society needs to relax about bodies and be more comfortable with their own bodies and bodies that are different from theirs. Group showers should not be an issue. But if a kid is uncomfortable of other kids and/or teachers they should be able to go into a shower that is private. The expense to build a shower with stalls would not be that much more if any over group showers.

Additionally @Joe Bagadonuts you said society is heading the wrong way with protecting or being concerned with this small minority of trans gendered people. That statement has is the opposite of what it should be. The majority do not need to be protected, they are the majority. The rights that need protection in society are the group that is abused and hurt the most which is minorities. I am shocked someone would feel the opposite. White males, especially Christians, in our society have by far the most advantage and are the least abused of any group. Their walk in life is so much easier than everyone else's as a whole. Pretty sure that the number of white, straight, Christian males that have been abused by a trans gendered person is as close to 0 percent as possible. I am also positive that the majority of trans gendered people have been abused, teased or made to feel bad about themselves at least once on average by a straight white male.

The trans gendered issue inst about safety of your kids or women in lockers/showers. Abuse has been happening and is going to keep happening and the people doing it are rarely trans gendered people. This issue is about being uncomfortable with someone different and not respecting the rights of someone that has a different life style from your own.

If we want to talk about sexual assault and how to solve that then it is a different topic. One that revolves around boys growing up with a lack of respect for women and viewing them as objects and has nothing to do with where a trans gendered person goes to the bathroom.
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First of all, you are now the second person to make the argument that seeing genitals is the issue, and the other person was also on your same side of the argument. You probably do this because it is so much easier to mock the oppositions argument when you adjust it to fit your own needs. The actual issues have been stated repeatedly if you want to read the thread and address them instead.

Regarding the portion of your post directed at me, statistically 0.03% of the population is transgender. So over that fraction of a fraction of a percent we're going to rewrite the rules? There is a much larger percentage of the population over 300 lbs and they have a ton of challenges to deal with, many of which are created by people who are smaller in size and apparently don't care about the needs of the large. Are the the morbidly obese simply too large of a minority for us to be concerned with? Or are you really willing to apply your same minority logic to any minority that anybody can dream up, no matter how small?

The bathroom norms that were previously in place were working perfectly fine. There might have been a few people in the country who felt inconvenienced because they chose a lifestyle that made their bathroom choice a little bit more difficult, but even among the transgendered I'll bet the vast majority figured out a solution that worked for them and nobody else really cared. But apparently someone was in need of a ****storm so they decided they needed to make an issue of this. I wonder who will ultimately benefit.
 
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Joe Bagadonuts said:
First of all, you are now the second person to make the argument that seeing genitals is the issue, and the other person was also on your same side of the argument. You probably do this because it is so much easier to mock the oppositions argument when you adjust it to fit your own needs. The actual issues have been stated repeatedly if you want to read the thread and address them instead.

Regarding the portion of your post directed at me, statistically 0.03% of the population is transgender. So over that fraction of a fraction of a percent we're going to rewrite the rules? There is a much larger percentage of the population over 300 lbs and they have a ton of challenges to deal with, many of which are created by people who are smaller in size and apparently don't care about the needs of the large. Are the the morbidly obese simply too large of a minority for us to be concerned with? Or are you really willing to apply your same minority logic to any minority that anybody can dream up, no matter how small?

The bathroom norms that were previously in place were working perfectly fine. There might have been a few people in the country who felt inconvenienced because they chose a lifestyle that made their bathroom choice a little bit more difficult, but even among the transgendered I'll bet the vast majority figured out a solution that worked for them and nobody else really cared. But apparently someone was in need of a ****storm so they decided they needed to make an issue of this. I wonder who will ultimately benefit.
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Inherently contradictory. You argue to not to cater to minorities while excusing the intrusive reasons we should? These are linked logics.
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
First of all, you are now the second person to make the argument that seeing genitals is the issue, and the other person was also on your same side of the argument. You probably do this because it is so much easier to mock the oppositions argument when you adjust it to fit your own needs. The actual issues have been stated repeatedly if you want to read the thread and address them instead.

Regarding the portion of your post directed at me, statistically 0.03% of the population is transgender. So over that fraction of a fraction of a percent we're going to rewrite the rules? There is a much larger percentage of the population over 300 lbs and they have a ton of challenges to deal with, many of which are created by people who are smaller in size and apparently don't care about the needs of the large. Are the the morbidly obese simply too large of a minority for us to be concerned with? Or are you really willing to apply your same minority logic to any minority that anybody can dream up, no matter how small?

The bathroom norms that were previously in place were working perfectly fine. There might have been a few people in the country who felt inconvenienced because they chose a lifestyle that made their bathroom choice a little bit more difficult, but even among the transgendered I'll bet the vast majority figured out a solution that worked for them and nobody else really cared. But apparently someone was in need of a ****storm so they decided they needed to make an issue of this. I wonder who will ultimately benefit.
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And this started with HB2, which is the far right creating the storm. They didn't like Charlotte's protection of trangendered folk, which if I recall, didn't have anything to do with bathrooms. It was HB2, the North Carolina's state legislature's bill, that brought up bathrooms.

Also, "chose a lifestyle" is way too charged a phrase to take anything else of your post seriously.
 
Darkwing Duck said:
And this started with HB2, which is the far right creating the storm. They didn't like Charlotte's protection of trangendered folk, which if I recall, didn't have anything to do with bathrooms. It was HB2, the North Carolina's state legislature's bill, that brought up bathrooms.

Also, "chose a lifestyle" is way too charged a phrase to take anything else of your post seriously.
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We all choose our lifestyle. That is not a charged phrase. And the Obama administration directives preceded HB2. It was in response.
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
We all choose our lifestyle. That is not a charged phrase. And the Obama administration directives preceded HB2. It was in response.
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Better check your dates there.

While I certainly am no expert on this subject, I do know that I did not choose my gender or my sexual orientation.


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Darkwing Duck said:
And this started with HB2, which is the far right creating the storm. They didn't like Charlotte's protection of trangendered folk, which if I recall, didn't have anything to do with bathrooms. It was HB2, the North Carolina's state legislature's bill, that brought up bathrooms.

Also, "chose a lifestyle" is way too charged a phrase to take anything else of your post seriously.
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HB2 is not where it started. HB2 was in reaction to many things, including this:
https://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/docs/qa-201404-title-ix.pdf

I posted another example earlier in this thread where the ACLU sued a school district on behalf of a transgender student for the right to shower with the girls. Having a private stall was considered discriminatory because none of the other girls were required to shower in a private stall. The Obama Administration made the decision to push transgender issues. I'll bet they were hoping for a reaction similar to the one they ultimately got.
 
Darkwing Duck said:
https://www.metroweekly.com/2015/10/joseph-lobdell-tragedy-and-triumph/

The current firestorm goes directly to HB2. There have been isolated transgender issues going back to the 1800s, as that link shows. The current news cycle owes to the NC state legislature going into SPECIAL session with the SOLE intention of a forced repeal of, at the time, a non-newsworthy ordinance a metro city passed.
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Not according to this left leaning website:
https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2016/05/timeline-bathroom-wars
"Who started this fight?" Yes, that's a crude way of putting it. But if we contain ourselves to the last decade or so, the answer is: liberals. Before then, the status quo was simple: men used one bathroom and women used another. It was liberals who started pressing for change, and the conservative protest was a response to that.
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Ultimately we probably won't agree on how this started, but I think it's abundantly clear that liberals are the ones who want to change the status quo on this issue.
 
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