what hayward could bring to the table

[billyshelby]

So we need long, athletic players who can't play?

Davis could obviously bust. But 'can't play'? The only reason Davis wasn't bigger on the radar is because UNC had terrible guard play last year AND he was giving up shots to freakin Deon Thompson. Throw in the injury and it was virtually a lost year. We'll see where this all goes.

 

[Stifle Tower]

I see Hayward bringing KFC, burgers and pizza to the table. It's part of his rookie hazing. He'll also get a chance to use his little princess suitcase on road trips. He probably hasn't used it since his freshman year.

 

[Gyp Rosetti]

I obviously can't defend Davis since that's all subjective at this point. But even in the context of hyperbole, Josh Smith is very, very far from 'nothing special.' He was a legit 'snub' from the All Star team and 3rd or 4th option makes it sound like he was the 3rd or 4th best player on the Hawks. If I had to pick a player from the Hawks, it wouldn't be Johnson, it would be Smith. I'd be thrilled to have Josh Smith on the Jazz, not just because we have little frontcourt talent. That kid is 24, coming into his prime, already a defensive force, and his offensive game is very good, if not exceptional. So I don't care if you don't think Davis is Josh Smith, but don't go down the road Josh Smith isn't a fantastic player.

Perhaps I didn't give him enough credit. However, I feel like Smith will always be a tweener. I don't watch enough games to truly assess that accurately but from what I've seen, he's a bit undersized to play the 4 and doesn't really have the offensive skillset to be a true 3 either. I hate tweeners unless they're off the bench, Odom like players who can present match-up problems.

 

[Darkwing Duck]

I obviously can't defend Davis since that's all subjective at this point. But even in the context of hyperbole, Josh Smith is very, very far from 'nothing special.' He was a legit 'snub' from the All Star team and 3rd or 4th option makes it sound like he was the 3rd or 4th best player on the Hawks. If I had to pick a player from the Hawks, it wouldn't be Johnson, it would be Smith. I'd be thrilled to have Josh Smith on the Jazz, not just because we have little frontcourt talent. That kid is 24, coming into his prime, already a defensive force, and his offensive game is very good, if not exceptional. So I don't care if you don't think Davis is Josh Smith, but don't go down the road Josh Smith isn't a fantastic player.

I'd go out on a limb and trade Hayward for Josh Smith.

 

[bozmansblues]

I suppose getting a bit more serious, the real issue is that with pick 9, you hope to get someone who will be in the top 3 players on your team at least right? ok. Also, you want your team to threaten for a championship, or else, dwill will be leaving when his contract expires.

So i suppose the question becomes when was the last time that a white bball player who played the 1, 2 or 3 spots was in the top 3 players of a team in the nba finals, or even conference finals.

The only ones i can think of are manu ginobli and nash (never got to finals). I dont think there any others in the last 10 years - therefore the concerns of most people in this forum about drafting a "white" SG/SF is that in todays nba, where being able to stay in front of your opponent on defence has never been harder, a white person, except in the most exceptional circumstances, is always going to be struggling agst the best SG/SF out there who can penetrate.

So, in all reality, we have drafted someone who has a substantial ceiling on their heads, which will most likely limit them to being the 4th-10th best player on the team and in all reality being a bit player, just like korver has been.

With all this in mind, it is a bit of a let down that we have drafted a player at number 9 with such a ceiling, instead of either going for the other african american SG/SF's who have a higher ceiling, or gone for a PF/C.

However, we are stuck with him now, and I hope he becomes the next bird/ginobli - but jeez - the odds are agst him!

 

[honz]

I suppose getting a bit more serious, the real issue is that with pick 9, you hope to get someone who will be in the top 3 players on your team at least right? ok. Also, you want your team to threaten for a championship, or else, dwill will be leaving when his contract expires.

So i suppose the question becomes when was the last time that a white bball player who played the 1, 2 or 3 spots was in the top 3 players of a team in the nba finals, or even conference finals.

The only ones i can think of are manu ginobli and nash (never got to finals). I dont think there any others in the last 10 years - therefore the concerns of most people in this forum about drafting a "white" SG/SF is that in todays nba, where being able to stay in front of your opponent on defence has never been harder, a white person, except in the most exceptional circumstances, is always going to be struggling agst the best SG/SF out there who can penetrate.

So, in all reality, we have drafted someone who has a substantial ceiling on their heads, which will most likely limit them to being the 4th-10th best player on the team and in all reality being a bit player, just like korver has been.

With all this in mind, it is a bit of a let down that we have drafted a player at number 9 with such a ceiling, instead of either going for the other african american SG/SF's who have a higher ceiling, or gone for a PF/C.

However, we are stuck with him now, and I hope he becomes the next bird/ginobli - but jeez - the odds are agst him!

Hedo Turkoglu? Steve Nash? Dirk? AK?

 

[Darkwing Duck]

Hedo Turkoglu? Steve Nash? Dirk? AK?

1, 2, 3 spot eliminates Dirk. AK wasn't the third best that year. but yes, those other two qualify.

 

[Revolution 9]

Let's pretend for a minute that our main goal is not to match up with the lakers. Everybody is talking about how we desperately need a big to match the lakers frontline. Ed Davis and Cole Aldrich would have done nothing to help us there IMO.

In Gordon Hayward, we have a kid with a great attitude who is willing to learn. He might not have star potential, but I could see him as a player who can take a lot of pressure off dwill. He has great size for a 3, is semi athletic, and can dribble, penetrate, and pass. Everyone has been so focused on matching the lakers after they swept us that they forget one of our needs is a guy like Hayward. He is a point forward who I think is crafty enough to take the ball to the hole and draw some attention from the opposing d.

Call me an idiot, but I think he has the potential to turn into a nice complementary scoring threat next to dwill. He can create his own shot, which makes us more dangerous against every team but the lakers. What do you all think about his potential?

These sound like excuses for why we reached for Hayward. The guy cannot defend or shoot right now.
From Sloan's post draft comments the only thing it sounds like Hayward brings to the table now is smarts, and he'll do whatever he says.
He's a smart player. He knows what he's doing. He has a "great attitude". Whoopie!


Sadly, we know what he can do now, and it's nothing that warrants a top 10 pick.

Aldrich and Ed Davis aren't a sure thing, but if they pan out they would help our interior.
A best case scenario for Hayward looks like a smarter less athletic version of CJ Miles.
There will be a lot of picks after Hayward that will be better pros.
This pick is going to go down as one of the worst in franchise history.
I hope I'm wrong, and the guy turns into a stud I just don't see it happening.

 

[Harcher]

These sound like excuses for why we reached for Hayward. The guy cannot defend or shoot right now.
From Sloan's post draft comments the only thing it sounds like Hayward brings to the table now is smarts, and he'll do whatever he says.
He's a smart player. He knows what he's doing. He has a "great attitude". Whoopie!


Sadly, we know what he can do now, and it's nothing that warrants a top 10 pick.

Aldrich and Ed Davis aren't a sure thing, but if they pan out they would help our interior.
A best case scenario for Hayward looks like a smarter less athletic version of CJ Miles.
There will be a lot of picks after Hayward that will be better pros.
This pick is going to go down as one of the worst in franchise history.
I hope I'm wrong, and the guy turns into a stud I just don't see it happening.

Aldrich was the most sure thing in the draft in the 9 range in my opinion. He'll be a player becuase he is big enough 9' 3' reach to be a lane clogger. Not sure how good, but something of a player. Ed Davis has the range of being a bust to a good player, but he's AK clone physically so he's not really a lane clogger. I think Davis had too much risk and didn't REALLY offer the precise need. That is why the Jazz passed on him.

I think Hayward represented a risk that was in many dimensions in the realm of the Jazz - team player, smart player, he will be a decent shooter, he'll be a good wing passer, he'll fit in here socially and be a popular player. the Jazz require guys who play in the system. This was Gordon Giracek's problem. Gira had the skills to be a player here, just not the willingness to confirm to the plan. Can Haward be as good as Gira, but with a team mentality? He'll be a player becuase there is a team system here. I don't have much expectation he'll be great (Hornacek level) - but I hope i'm wrong.... But looking at the options, he's very reasonable pick.

 

[friendsinmyhead]

Are you delusional? The ACC was weak as hell this year.

Yeah I'm delusional... they were weak as hell- 6 out of 10 teams made the tournament. 4 teams out of 6 won in the first round. THEY WON THE CHAMPIONSHIP! On top of that UNC won the year before. I wish the Mountain West could have been so weak.

 

[friendsinmyhead]

I think Hayward represented a risk that was in many dimensions in the realm of the Jazz - team player, smart player, he will be a decent shooter, he'll be a good wing passer, he'll fit in here socially and be a popular player. the Jazz require guys who play in the system. This was Gordon Giracek's problem. Gira had the skills to be a player here, just not the willingness to confirm to the plan. Can Haward be as good as Gira, but with a team mentality? He'll be a player becuase there is a team system here. I don't have much expectation he'll be great (Hornacek level) - but I hope i'm wrong.... But looking at the options, he's very reasonable pick.

Why couldn't Davis have been a team player? a smart player? fit in socially? Is it really because Hayward is white? Davis could have had all the qualities you mention AND size/athletic. Also why are you giving Hayward a pass on shooting his % is horrible.

 

[Darkwing Duck]

Why couldn't Davis have been a team player? a smart player? fit in socially? Is it really because Hayward is white? Davis could have had all the qualities you mention AND size/athletic. Also why are you giving Hayward a pass on shooting his % is horrible.

Only his sophomore season from 3. He shot 59% from inside the arc last year. The highlights I saw had him shooting all over the court. 15 to 18 footers were common. 59% from 2 is quite good.

 

[friendsinmyhead]

Only his sophomore season from 3. He shot 59% from inside the arc last year. The highlights I saw had him shooting all over the court. 15 to 18 footers were common. 59% from 2 is quite good.

I agree that 59% from two is good. However 29% from 3 is not good and when you take into consideration that many of his "3s" were actually NBA 2s this would lower his NBA 2 point % from 59%.

Also the thing about highlights is that they show highlights and not lowlights or mediumlights so you only see the good and rarely see the 3 for 14 games.

 

[Darkwing Duck]

I agree that 59% from two is good. However 29% from 3 is not good and when you take into consideration that many of his "3s" were actually NBA 2s this would lower his NBA 2 point % from 59%.

Also the thing about highlights is that they show highlights and not lowlights or mediumlights so you only see the good and rarely see the 3 for 14 games.

You misunderstand my point. His highlights show him shooting from everywhere on the court. Thus it's reasonable to assume that the 59% isn't just from layups and dunks. It also includes the mid range shot.

 

[Cece]

Hayward will be fine, but Patterson will be better.

 

[NAOS]

This post definitely deserved its own thread. I rank it about 100 out of the 270 Hayward threads on the site.

I just spent about 30 seconds thinking about who you are... "what was this dude's avatar on the previous site?" I thought to myself, "I seriously can't remember anybody who was this exceptionally whiney and obsessed over everything..."

Do us a favor and add at least 3 exciting things to your life so that you can quit harping on other people who don't spend every waking second categorizing every action....

... wait ... maybe you are O Gat?

 

[Darkwing Duck]

Hayward will be fine, but Patterson will be better.

That's certainly possible, but the complaining here would still be as fervent. The difference would be the argument. Instead of AWS, it would be "why did we use the #9 to draft a backup PF?"

 

[Darkwing Duck]

I just spent about 30 seconds thinking about who you are... "what was this dude's avatar on the previous site?" I thought to myself, "I seriously can't remember anybody who was this exceptionally whiney and obsessed over everything..."

Do us a favor and add at least 3 exciting things to your life so that you can quit harping on other people who don't spend every waking second categorizing every action....

... wait ... maybe you are O Gat?

Nope, lurker of many years, so in reality, my post count is actually incredibly low, so I'm trying to catch up.

Interesting that you use whiny and obsessed when I'm generally trying to be cantankerous and somewhat satirical.

 

[NAOS]

Interesting that you use whiny and obsessed when I'm generally trying to be cantankerous and somewhat satirical.

quite an obsessive thing to say.
Oh! ... and being generally cantankerous and satirical is THE MOST ORIGINAL personification in the history of internets!!!

At least I can put my search to rest. It appears, in fact, that there wasn't anybody this whiney and obsessed on the old site. And, you make too much sense at times to be O Gat.

 

[Darkwing Duck]

quite an obsessive thing to say.
Oh! ... and being generally cantankerous and satirical is THE MOST ORIGINAL personification in the history of internets!!!

At least I can put my search to rest. It appears, in fact, that there wasn't anybody this whiney and obsessed on the old site. And, you make too much sense at times to be O Gat.

Not sure I get the "whiney" and obsessive thing. I would the the RAAAAAAWWWWRRRR RAGE RAGE MY OPINION IS BEST BECAUSE IT IS LOUDEST ranting going on that I poke fun at or the tunnel vision posting of many posters here would be more obsessive and "whiney."