What is Mike Conley's trade market?

[infection]

Here's my "win now" move with Conley:

We trade Mike, NAW and Gay to Dallas for Bullock and Bertans.

Why our FO does it:

- It saves $5 in salary next year at the expense of worsening longer term salary. They love these moves.

- We get to win the press conference with getting "long defensive wing who can shoot threes." This will be distilled over the course of a season where he will be taught to be lazy, and he will see his efforts to be active be pointless when everyone else is being lazy, and by the post-season it will be rendered entirely pointless.

- Jazz media get to talk about the value of a true "3 pt sniper," a guy who can throw it up contested, off-balance, whatever. You'll hear more about how we haven't had a true three point threat from everywhere since Korver left, and how our lack of threes falling can be remedied with a guy who can get it off from anywhere.

Why we should do it:

- We could pretend we're moving in the direction of defense.

- It gets rid of some bad salary. Downside is you still have another year on Bertan's deal.

I originally typed this up as a joke. After I went through a justification and it saving some short-term money, I don't hate it. It cuts dead salary while adding on some problematic salary with Bertans.

The funniest thing about this as a salary deal is all it really dose is effectively negate the negative effects of the Joe trade by adding NAW's $5M to next year's books. It continues a process of kicking the can down the road, limiting tax liability in one year while exacerbating it down the road.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

We could probably run a strategy where only Simmons and Gobert run back on D. If DM isn’t going to play any anyway, may as well cash in by just having him cherry pick.

Someone convince Ryan he could have three all stars at the game.

The super skeptic in me feels very strongly that Ben Simmons is never playing basketball again. I wouldn't trade for him unless I got a whole bunch of picks. I think he is partly milking the back injury for multiple years of salary without playing. You would know better but the surgery he is having seems like something he could have had during the year... saying the mental issues are causing the back issues...

IDK he has a lawsuit to get his wages back from this year and this stuff helps it... having the surgery and just not quite being good enough to play next year because he's hurt... I'm just really skeptical on the guy. Not saying he is faking it... saying he is milking the **** out of it.

 

[infection]

The super skeptic in me feels very strongly that Ben Simmons is never playing basketball again. I wouldn't trade for him unless I got a whole bunch of picks. I think he is partly milking the back injury for multiple years of salary without playing. You would know better but the surgery he is having seems like something he could have had during the year... saying the mental issues are causing the back issues...

IDK he has a lawsuit to get his wages back from this year and this stuff helps it... having the surgery and just not quite being good enough to play next year because he's hurt... I'm just really skeptical on the guy. Not saying he is faking it... saying he is milking the **** out of it.

Wasn't aware of the surgery. Someone mentioned it yesterday, but then made a joke about his back having to hold up his head, so I thought it was all a joke. I'm now laissez-faire about any moves. The FO isn't showing any signs of self-awareness or good leadership, so my expectations are quite low. If they want to make stupid moves that screw us hard both long and short-term, we as the fans may as well get some lols out of it. If we make these other moves that blow up, it's really going to be people clued in who knew how stupid their actions were, while something as public as a Simmons trade (or any other large lol move) at least points the public laughing at the right people (specifically the FO and not just the team in general). Right now our team is taking a lot of heat for the sins of the coaching staff, FO and ownership group. I'd like to at least have the right people take their fair share of heat.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

At a minimum, Mike is a good dude who knows his craft and who could mentor a young guard coming into the league. He'd give an element of class and stability to a franchise that needs some. I could see him play for a team like Detroit where he plays next to Cade and spells him at the 1.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Wasn't aware of the surgery. Someone mentioned it yesterday, but then made a joke about his back having to hold up his head, so I thought it was all a joke. I'm now laissez-faire about any moves. The FO isn't showing any signs of self-awareness or good leadership, so my expectations are quite low. If they want to make stupid moves that screw us hard both long and short-term, we as the fans may as well get some lols out of it. If we make these other moves that blow up, it's really going to be people clued in who knew how stupid their actions were, while something as public as a Simmons trade (or any other large lol move) at least points the public laughing at the right people (specifically the FO and not just the team in general). Right now our team is taking a lot of heat for the sins of the coaching staff, FO and ownership group. I'd like to at least have the right people take their fair share of heat.

My only hope is that Ainge isn't washed and is able to convince Ryan this is a huge opportunity to take advantage of teams. The narrative that they aren't trading Donovan actually fits as to get the best offer they need to know or think you are cool holding. It needs to be a "make me move" offer.

I think Rudy might have more serious suitors than Donovan... but I think the Knicks might go bonkers with an offer for Don. One more year of guys like Randle hating it there and showing how its a terrible environment may sour Donovan on the idea of going there.

I don't want the lols and I know Simmons is good but I'm not sure I could ever like him even if he played for us.

 

[SoberasHotRod]

Look his market isn't great but overall he had a strong season and he is healthy. You can easily explain away his struggles as we asked too much of him for a time and he wore down or our completely ****** vibes. I think he is still something that can get us a positive return.

There are two types of trades for every player this offseason imo... the blow this **** up trade options that net picks and the let's stay competitive trades that we almost surely try.

Win now trades:

Washington prolly has the worst pg situation and wants to make Beal happy so they might be the best partner. The trade I'd attempt to get is KCP and Deni for Conley. Deni is a guy I love and would almost like to see us keep Rudy and Donovan together if we got him as I think he could take a big leap and be a major connecting piece on both ends of the court. KCP in a contract year is helpful. They likely would rather do Rui and KCP for Mike which I'm less high on. It seemed they were showcasing Rui end of season. He's a solid prospect but not a winning player... he's fine for a tank I guess. I'm not sure how they view Deni, but they seem to love Kuzma and don't have a ton of other stuff to trade to help at PG. So its a little optimistic but not crazy town imo.

Clips have been mentioned... the trade that makes most sense would be Kennard (now they have Powell so Kennard is kind of overkill) and Zubac. If they can't keep Hartenstein then they likely aren't doing this one and they have limited cap flexibility to keep Hartenstein. I don't hate Kennard but I hate him for our roster... he's exactly the type of undersized, non-athletic guy we don't need more of. Zubac can help prop up the center position since Rudy likely getting moved.

Then I could see Detroit wanting Mike's vet presence if they can't get Brunson... help mentor Cade and Bey and set them up. I think Joseph and Olynyk would be the trade pieces coming back. Gives a defensive guard and a stretch 5 and saves Ryan enough he may duck the tax (which will be a priority this offseason even though every Jazz media type not named Andy Larsen will deny it and scoff at you if you even consider that notion).

The easiest win now trade is a straight swap with Indiana for Brogdon. One less year on the Conley deal and Malcolm might be a tough personality based on everything I hear about him. They may not want him around the young guys in a rebuilding situation. He might be moved in the Westbrook deal that is surely coming but if LA doesn't give up the picks then this might be the best solution. I also get the sense they don't want to completely bottom out.

I could also see a "make Donovan happy deal" for DLo where we send Conley and Gay for Russell and get one of Donovan's buddies in the building. Such fun.

Finally - I could see a trade with San Antonio where they try to help supplement Murray's playmaking and trade Richardson for Mike. They have wings... as long as Pop is around they won't rebuild. This maybe helps them be better next year. I also don't think they can use all of their cap space this offseason... this deal would take about 10M off our payroll for next season and give us a wing. Again the beat writers will sell you on the money being unimportant or being reinvested... don't buy that ****.

I don't know much about Deni, but he seems interesting. It seems unlikely that Washington would give up on him. Richardson could fill some needs here. Everybody else probably makes the team worse.

I know you personally aren't in favor of retooling, so I'm not arguing with you, but it's going to be difficult to replace Mike's shooting and ball handling, while upgrading length/athleticism/defense.

 

[SoberasHotRod]

At a minimum, Mike is a good dude who knows his craft and who could mentor a young guard coming into the league. He'd give an element of class and stability to a franchise that needs some. I could see him play for a team like Detroit where he plays next to Cade and spells him at the 1.

Yeah, I think he could be super valuable in that type of role. I just don't think people will want to pay him for the rest of his contract do that. At least not without us giving them something to do it for.

 

[infection]

My only hope is that Ainge isn't washed and is able to convince Ryan this is a huge opportunity to take advantage of teams. The narrative that they aren't trading Donovan actually fits as to get the best offer they need to know or think you are cool holding. It needs to be a "make me move" offer.

I think Rudy might have more serious suitors than Donovan... but I think the Knicks might go bonkers with an offer for Don. One more year of guys like Randle hating it there and showing how its a terrible environment may sour Donovan on the idea of going there.

I don't want the lols and I know Simmons is good but I'm not sure I could ever like him even if he played for us.

My take on this is that I believe Ainge is a short-timer. He stepped out to "retire" at the last place and even though they're doing good now, it seemed to have some drama with his exit. He comes here and gets to do the half-time thing. He thought he was coming in getting a top 3 seed that just needed a little help to go over the top. It was short-to-mid-term goals that would allow him to pick up some low-hanging fruit to add another feather in his cap and jewel to his legacy. Then we nose dived, ended up 5th, got bounced quickly, and have a lot of drama. I don't think he has any incentive for a long game because he isn't going to be here that long, and he wants the credit of doing something now and not waiting until later when so many other hands are on deck that nobody is focusing on "wow, Danny really did a good job here!" I believe his timeline favors wanting to compete now. The only problem is if he really believes that he's going to win in the short term by going deep into appeasing Donovan. Like trading Rudy and keeping DM and Quin. If he really has gotten in this season and thinks that's a viable solution for winning, then we're screwed.

Ainge has short-term goals.
Wade is a part owner and can jump ship much easier. He doesn't have to stress as much about long-term issues.
Ryan should be taking a perspective that doesn't totally burn the franchise down in the long-run. But his two closest guys have been in the league at all levels, they have much different goals, and they're not going to be pointing out "hey, you should really look at what this means for you individually numerous years down the road," so he's riding with the short-term perspective.

This isn't too much different than lockout seasons. It's always amazing to me that the NBA and the NBAPA end up squabbling about a small amount of money difference, the type of money differences that are entirely negated many times fold if any of these players actually miss a season or portion of it, but it really benefits those with long-term skin in the game (agents, etc.) who have enough time to be able to recoup. So what are the agents advising the players? This is just like that except inverting who is advising whom and what their timeline is on their goals.

 

[SoberasHotRod]

Here's my "win now" move with Conley:

We trade Mike, NAW and Gay to Dallas for Bullock and Bertans.

Why our FO does it:

- It saves $5 in salary next year at the expense of worsening longer term salary. They love these moves.

- We get to win the press conference with getting "long defensive wing who can shoot threes." This will be distilled over the course of a season where he will be taught to be lazy, and he will see his efforts to be active be pointless when everyone else is being lazy, and by the post-season it will be rendered entirely pointless.

- Jazz media get to talk about the value of a true "3 pt sniper," a guy who can throw it up contested, off-balance, whatever. You'll hear more about how we haven't had a true three point threat from everywhere since Korver left, and how our lack of threes falling can be remedied with a guy who can get it off from anywhere.

Why we should do it:

- We could pretend we're moving in the direction of defense.

- It gets rid of some bad salary. Downside is you still have another year on Bertan's deal.

I originally typed this up as a joke. After I went through a justification and it saving some short-term money, I don't hate it. It cuts dead salary while adding on some problematic salary with Bertans.

You think Dallas does this?

 

[LoPo]

Rudy and Conley to Atlanta.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

My take on this is that I believe Ainge is a short-timer. He stepped out to "retire" at the last place and even though they're doing good now, it seemed to have some drama with his exit. He comes here and gets to do the half-time thing. He thought he was coming in getting a top 3 seed that just needed a little help to go over the top. It was short-to-mid-term goals that would allow him to pick up some low-hanging fruit to add another feather in his cap and jewel to his legacy. Then we nose dived, ended up 5th, got bounced quickly, and have a lot of drama. I don't think he has any incentive for a long game because he isn't going to be here that long, and he wants the credit of doing something now and not waiting until later when so many other hands are on deck that nobody is focusing on "wow, Danny really did a good job here!" I believe his timeline favors wanting to compete now. The only problem is if he really believes that he's going to win in the short term by going deep into appeasing Donovan. Like trading Rudy and keeping DM and Quin. If he really has gotten in this season and thinks that's a viable solution for winning, then we're screwed.

Ainge has short-term goals.
Wade is a part owner and can jump ship much easier. He doesn't have to stress as much about long-term issues.
Ryan should be taking a perspective that doesn't totally burn the franchise down in the long-run. But his two closest guys have been in the league at all levels, they have much different goals, and they're not going to be pointing out "hey, you should really look at what this means for you individually numerous years down the road," so he's riding with the short-term perspective.

This isn't too much different than lockout seasons. It's always amazing to me that the NBA and the NBAPA end up squabbling about a small amount of money difference, the type of money differences that are entirely negated many times fold if any of these players actually miss a season or portion of it, but it really benefits those with long-term skin in the game (agents, etc.) who have enough time to be able to recoup. So what are the agents advising the players? This is just like that except inverting who is advising whom and what their timeline is on their goals.

I think that is the case... but also he could be the retired guy in the woods chopping wood and gets called in for one last job... in this scenario the chance to blow some **** up awakens the inner trader Danny and he realizes he can build a mega dynasty his great grandkids can talk about.

Its more likely he wanted a few extra checks and is more like the part time retired golf course marshal though.

Gonna be hilarious when Wade sells his minority interest for a huge payday. Shaq owned part of the Kings at one time.