What should the FO do if we are 0.500 by January?

[KqWIN]

The more I thought about it, the less I think benching Nurk/Love is a tank move. Flip is the best healthy C on the team and Flip as PF is one of the worst players on the team.

 

[Elizah Huge]

Interesting back and forth from HH and Zach Lowe on X


View: https://x.com/zachlowe_nba/status/2006088199320596497?s=46


View: https://x.com/zachlowe_nba/status/2006089632535232563?s=46

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Very much so.

I’m really trying to figure out how the Jazz can trade Nurkic and that seems impossible. With Jokic going down it would seem they could use another center but his price tag is just so out of wack with his production and the apron rules make it hard for spenders to make any moves like that.

Boston and maybe GS would work. Issue is JK needs to go elsewhere and so does Simons.

He's hard to move so I'd likely start with Svi and Love... cut Anderson

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Very much so.

I’m really trying to figure out how the Jazz can trade Nurkic and that seems impossible. With Jokic going down it would seem Denver could use another center but his price tag is just so out of wack with his production and the apron rules make it hard for spenders to make any moves like that.

I think they just need to cut him and have the stones to do it sooner than later if that’s where this is headed. There is no scenario they get value for him if they can even find a partner (they will either have to eat future salary, pay assets to offload, or both), so there’d really be no reason to take the matter all the way to the deadline.

This is the trade I thought of first, but having Schroeder's contract for the next season is probably a no-go for the Jazz.

 

[NUMBERICA]

I think so. Flip's on-off numbers are pretty spectacular but I wonder if that reverses once he's a full time starter.

Will gets to see 5-out.

I just think Svi/Nurk/Love are generally fairly positive. In Love's case it seems more like he impacts certain games a lot but is generally negative. Either way we need to trim the roster. They are very precious about Svi though. I bet we could get a second or two for him right now and they just won't do it.

Specifically with Flip being the starter, one could say that the depth behind him would be where the Jazz would suffer, but if they’re bringing in Oscar for those minutes then I think that has a decent chance of improving the rotation. At least we’d get the young guys further along and/or know what we have brewing with the players that will either be here when we’re good or harvest value on the trade market later as guys come up for their paydays.

It feels like right now the only meaningful thing they could do that won’t draw too much ire or **** up the build is make sure Lauri isn’t playing a bajillion minutes a game and resting him on one of the b2bs as a rule (they really should be doing this type of thing regardless). And trimming Key’s minutes (32 minutes v 38 or whatever). And playing Cody (and Taylor) A LOT.

 

[KqWIN]

Besides personnel change and benching, we can also get Hardy to cool it with coaching hard for the W. If Hardy doesn't lazer focus on getting the W against DET, the narrative is probably a lot different. We would have lost against DET and be happier with our W against SAS. But since we beat two good teams back to back the tank is suddenly over. There's been a few games like that earlier in the year as well. We've won games because Hardy is focused on it, and we've also lost some games where Hardy probably could have coached us to a W if he wanted.

We gotta cut out the flip flopping whenever and wherever we can. Just a few wins can make a big difference.

 

[NUMBERICA]

View attachment 19840

This is the trade I thought of first, but having Schroeder's contract for the next season is probably a no-go for the Jazz.

We need more garbage and less returning longterm salary, lol. Teams cleaning up their ledgers have made jettisoning overpaid expiring contracts for other overpaid expiring contracts very difficult.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Specifically with Flip being the starter, one could say that the depth behind him would be where the Jazz would suffer, but if they’re bringing in Oscar for those minutes then I think that has a decent chance of improving the rotation. At least we’d get the young guys further along and/or know what we have brewing with the players that will either be here when we’re good or harvest value on the trade market later as guys come up for their paydays.

It feels like right now the only meaningful thing they could do that won’t draw too much ire or **** up the build is make sure Lauri isn’t playing a bajillion minutes a game and resting him on one of the b2bs as a rule (they really should be doing this type of thing regardless).

I'd move Svi/Love (or cut Love when he finds a landing spot). Then I think you can manage injuries and Lauri here and there... but yeah the running Lauri out there 38minutes in wins should have already been a no-no and should definitely be addressed.

Literally 2 wins above expectations right now... we ideally would be 1-2 losses below (some of this may be impacted by our huge losses). Winning these close and OT games is like a tanking cardinal sin. But this is what happens when you have commitment issues.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Literally 2 wins above expectations right now... we ideally would be 1-2 losses below (some of this may be impacted by our huge losses). Winning these close and OT games is like a tanking cardinal sin. But this is what happens when you have commitment issues.

I’m dying. Almost wish they wouldn’t have given me hope last week that they had the stomach to do what any serious person knows they need to do.

 

[SoberasHotRod]

I'm still looking at 23 wins as the magic number to ensure we keep our pick, so we can only win 11 more games all year which would be about 1 out of every 5 games.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

We need more garbage and less returning longterm salary, lol. Teams cleaning up their ledgers have made jettisoning overpaid expiring contracts for other overpaid expiring contracts very difficult.

i mean you can just tell him to go home and try to trade him next season, idk. Saric is garbage. I dont know what else we can do.

But then again you can just waive Nurk, so probably dumb trade.

 

[Tremendous Upside]

but yeah the running Lauri out there 38minutes in wins should have already been a no-no and should definitely be addressed.

He's a very productive max player, an elite scorer who's in the middle of his prime. Those guys pretty much get to decide how many minutes they play, and you're kidding yourself if you think Lauri is some exception. He obviously wants to play a lot, and who can blame him? This season's team seems to be a pretty fun work environment and he's a competitive guy.

Sure he might agree to sit a game here and there (He IS nearing 30 after all and it's a long season), but I'd say it's hopeless to get him to agree to play 25mpg or something.

You just can't have these dudes on your team in the first place if you want to tank. It doesn't make any sense.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

The more I thought about it, the less I think benching Nurk/Love is a tank move. Flip is the best healthy C on the team and Flip as PF is one of the worst players on the team.

Okay... but if this happens and we prove out that 5-out Flip is sustainable and actually great... then you have something long-term you can use. So even that would have a better long term impact.

Whatever happens... we need Cody/Taylor heavily involved every night. Drag out any injuries you can. Hide George's ****ing ipad.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

He's a very productive max player who's in the middle of his prime. Those guys pretty much get to decide how many minutes they play, and you're kidding yourself if you think Lauri is some exception. He obviously wants to play a lot, and who can blame him? This season's team seems to be a pretty fun work environment and he's a competitive guy.

Sure he might agree to sit a game here and there (He IS nearing 30 after all and it's a long season), but I'd say it's hopeless to get him to agree to play 25mpg or something.

You just can't have these dudes on your team in the first place if you want to tank. It doesn't make any sense.

They don't. You are wrong. Playing him 32-34 minutes vs 36-38 is not going to ruin his life. You can also let him know it may extend his career. See Malone, Karl and Stockton, John.

He can sit a few games this year or he can get traded. My understanding is he would rather be here than chase the playoffs for now. So he has a choice too. We've paid him fairly and there is an end in sight. If he's miserable then ask out.

 

[KqWIN]

Okay... but if this happens and we prove out that 5-out Flip is sustainable and actually great... then you have something long-term you can use. So even that would have a better long term impact.

Whatever happens... we need Cody/Taylor heavily involved every night. Drag out any injuries you can. Hide George's ****ing ipad.

Yeah, I’m totally fine with that. Ditto if Cody, TH, WCJ etc turn out to be good.

Ideally I’d like to get a revolving door of GLeague centers. They will help you tank, or the hit. Both are fine. And you still get minutes for Flip at four where the same rule applies. You get more tank, or you discover something good prospect wise.

 

[Tremendous Upside]

Playing him 32-34 minutes vs 36-38 is not going to ruin his life.

32-34 as opposed to 36-38 isn't going to make any meaningful difference. Try 23-25.

I'm sure he doesn't think playing less would "ruin his life". But if he simply wants to play a lot of minutes, Will Hardy isn't going to bench him for tank purposes. That much has been clear from the start. He's like Lauri's #1 fan.

You can also let him know it may extend his career. See Malone, Karl and Stockton, John.

He may not want to play NBA basketball until he's 38 or something. Certainly doesn't need the money, and with the miles he's willingly logging as a 7 footer, it seems he knows he's not gonna be around for 10 more years anyway. Maybe.

He can sit a few games this year or he can get traded.

Yes, in theory. But it's such a hard contract to trade with the market being like it is. I enjoy watching him trying to drag a bunch of misfits to wins, but if I look at it from the POV of a tank boss, he should have been traded a long time ago.

My understanding is he would rather be here than chase the playoffs for now. So he has a choice too. We've paid him fairly and there is an end in sight. If he's miserable then ask out.

Many things can be true at the same time. He obviously wants to be here, he's paid fairly, there's an end in sight, he doesn't seem miserable... and he wants to play. His employer could play hardball with him if they were so inclined, but I just don't think they are.

 

[MTS]

They don't. You are wrong. Playing him 32-34 minutes vs 36-38 is not going to ruin his life. You can also let him know it may extend his career. See Malone, Karl and Stockton, John.

He can sit a few games this year or he can get traded. My understanding is he would rather be here than chase the playoffs for now. So he has a choice too. We've paid him fairly and there is an end in sight. If he's miserable then ask out.

Trading Lauri for being unwilling to sit a few games would be the ultimate case of letting the tail wag the dog.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

32-34 as opposed to 36-38 isn't going to make any meaningful difference. Try 23-25.

I'm sure he doesn't think playing less would "ruin his life". But if he simply wants to play a lot of minutes, Will Hardy isn't going to bench him for tank purposes. That much has been clear from the start. He's like Lauri's #1 fan.



He may not want to play NBA basketball until he's 38 or something. Certainly doesn't need the money, and with the miles he's willingly logging as a 7 footer, it seems he knows he's not gonna be around for 10 more years anyway. Maybe.



Yes, in theory. But it's such a hard contract to trade with the market being like it is. I enjoy watching him trying to drag a bunch of misfits to wins, but if I look at it from the POV of a tank boss, he should have been traded a long time ago.



Many things can be true at the same time. He obviously wants to be here, he's paid fairly, there's an end in sight, he doesn't seem miserable... and he wants to play. His employer could play hardball with him if they were so inclined, but I just don't think they are.

A few less minutes per night would have easily flipped a few games we have won. He plays 38 minutes in wins. It obviously matters to Hardy so he rides him when its close. He's our most impactful player. 2-3 minutes less over every win we have had would almost surely have us in the 5 or 6 spot vs in a full panic in the 9 spot.

Players don't determine how much they play. Sorry.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Trading Lauri for being unwilling to sit a few games would be the ultimate case of letting the tail wag the dog.

It was an extreme jump admittedly... but just showing that you can in fact tank with Lauri and he likely is willing to participate because he wants to be here. If the choices were extreme I'm sure Lauri wouldn't let the "sitting a few games" tail determine his complete satisfaction or dissatisfaction with the franchise. Likewise they likely wouldn't move him just for that.

I'm fairly certain if the choices were sitting 5-10 extra games the rest of the year or being traded to Det that Lauri would opt to be here. I think the Jazz also strongly prefer that... but there are lots of options in between. Acting like we can't tank with a player of Lauri caliber is just wrong. OKC did it with SGA... we've done it before. We wouldn't even have to be as extreme about it.

Or we can run him into the ground chasing the play-in and let the basketball gods bless us with a top 4 pick.